Zibby Owens on Building a Book Community, Publishing, and Staying Connected Through Stories

Between chapters is my own essays over the past 10 years.And it was as I went through this period of extreme change, of getting divorced and remarried and changing my name, gaining and losing friends, gaining and losing weight.Like all the funny things that happened along the way that I think will be relatable but also advice to my younger self and just wish I what I wish I had known when I started my 40s, essentially now that I'm, I think, 50 and my kids are going to college and everything.So.And it, it's not about being perfect in any way.It's like all the mistakes, all the hurdles and losses and you know, things like attacks on Jewish people.There are like a few essays on that, but also the Palisades fire and all the things that come up in life that are unexpected and how I got through them.Because I really love to read stories about how people get through tough things.Yes.So I included all of that.I also have launched a platform for other people to share their essays because as I'm saying, I just love reading essays.So on my substack@zippy owens.com I've had almost 200 women send in their own essays.Yeah, hey, we launch a new one of those and I am getting so much out of those essays.I'm learning so much.All the contributors are like in a WhatsApp and now they're all friends.So I just love this idea of stories, personal stories, bringing us closer together.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan.Welcome to I'll Meet yout There, a place where heart centered conversations are everything.Living what matters is the truest thing and sharing the journey is the best.

Hi everyone and welcome back to today.My guest is Zibby Owens.If you don't know Zibby, this conversation will introduce you to the literary world she has created, a world the LA Times has called Zibbyverse.

I discovered Zibby back in 2019 when.

She was hosting a podcast entitled Moms don't have Time to Read Books.And in the years since then, I've enjoyed all of the ways Zibby has expanded her love for writing and books and grown an enterprise that is all about connection and community.Zibby Owens is a best selling author and editor of 17 books, including the forthcoming Between Chapters, How I Started Over, Took Some Chances and Found the Plot.This book will be released on September 22nd of this year.She is also the writer of a novel, Bookends, A Memoir of Love, Loss and Literature and On Being Jewish, Reflections from Authors and Advocates, which spent 29 weeks on the USA Today bestseller list.Zibby has interviewed 2,300 authors and counting on her award winning podcast, Totally Booked with Zibby and in 2021 Zibby founded Zibby Media with the launch of her boutique publishing house, Zibby Publishing and year round retreats and events for book lovers.Zibby is also a wife and mother to four children.In this episode we talk about all of this and more.We talk about the origins of Zibby's ambition, what books mean to her, the way she has navigated the growth of her business both personally and professionally.And we talk about her experiences writing and launching her own books, each one of them being so unique.And Zibby shares with us the secret of how she stays connected to the passion of her work when there is so much to be done.Zibby's world is centered upon connection.In 2023 Zibby opened Zibby's Bookshop in.

Santa Monica and it's one of my.

All time favorite independent bookstores.We talk about the sense of community that comes from this gathering place as well as from the retreats hosted by Zibby Media that take place all over the United States.Zibby shows up everywhere, always with her love for books and devotion to readers.She's known for highlighting the book industry's most anticipated new releases and celebrating emerging authors.She's a frequent speaker moderator and you can find her recommending books on all sorts of media outlets like Good Morning America and Katie Couric Media.I was so happy she took the time to meet us here and I hope you're as inspired as I am to know that it really is possible to create a life around exactly what you love.Zibby has done this so beautifully.Enjoy my conversation with Zibby Owens.

I'm just kind of curious if you could have imagined when you were younger this thing that you've built around books and reading and community.Was that something in your mind when you were younger that books were that important or that you could have imagined.

Working in this way and contributing in this way?

I always loved books so much and from a really young age I wanted to be an author.So I wouldn't A young version of me wouldn't be surprised.I was in the book world given how passionate I was, but I would not have been able to envision what it has turned into.Exactly.But that's not something I could say for.I mean, I couldn't even have envisioned this a decade ago.So, so it's all sort of happened the way it has, and it's been very exciting and fun.But, yeah, it was not the plan, let's put it that way.

Totally.

And I always think of you because I told you this in our.When I was emailing you to invite you to join me.You know, you're one of those people who started it out of just organically, your own passion.You started the podcast, You've always been writing.But I work with a lot of women, and, you know, they go into business in.In a way that's like, maybe I'll grow this.And then they have a hard time growing it or deciding their capacity.And for me, the way that I have experienced your story from the outside is the growth was so fast that it was like, it was intriguing to me to watch you build this big thing.And I have been wondering how it felt on the inside, you know, behind the scenes and, like, managing.So for the listeners who don't know, will you just tell us, like, that quick little summary of you started the podcast in 2020, and then the whole thing takes off.Give us the context of that.

Okay, well, backing up for a minute.I have.I was a stay at home mom with four kids on the up on the Upper east side.I had always wanted to be an author.I had ghostwritten a book.I had had agents and had a book not sell.And so I was sort of a frustrated aspiring author.

Okay.

Got divorced in, I think, 2015, 2016, and I suddenly had time every other weekend to read, remember who I was, all of that, and started writing again.And I started writing a bunch of essays about motherhood and parenting and all of that.And after about a year of doing that, I felt like I had enough essays to write a book, which I thought would be funny to call moms don't have time to read books.Because I was like, who's gonna even have time to read this?But at the time, I wasn't on social media, I didn't have a platform, blah, blah, blah.And the couple agents I spoke to were like, you'll never be able to sell this.You have no platform.It's a collection of parenting essays.And so another friend suggested that I start a podcast in a way to build up, quote, unquote, the platform and whatever.It didn't matter that I've been freelancing since I was 15 years old.None of that mattered.So when I first started the podcast, it was in service to wanting to get these relatable parenting essays out there.

I see yeah.

And I already been interviewing lots of people for magazines for many years.Cause I had been doing that, so interviewing wasn't new, but podcasting as a format was new.And once I sat down and did my first interview, which was with a business school classmate of mine, Lee Carpenter, who's an author, I fell in love with it.I was like, I love this.And, you know, you probably feel the same way.

Oh, it's so fun.Yeah, the best.

And the idea that I could read a book and then talk directly with the author, it is still thrilling.Like, it is amazing to me.So to your point of that, it feels so quick.It does not feel quick to me because I've been doing.And I love podcasting.I love it.But I've been doing this night and day, like, posting every day, interviewing every day for eight years, which is, like, chunk of time.And my kids have, like, grown up during this time.So.Overnight success?Not exactly.And it has felt, like, very frustrating at times that it wasn't moving faster.You know, I. I liked growth, like.Like, because I could sense when I was hitting on something, and I know how to follow that up.And I, you know, I do have a business degree, for what it's worth, and I had a career in marketing, branding.And so I, like, wanted to put all my resources and intellect and effort behind everything.So I'm delighted it's grown.I think that the things that happened quickly were that I launched the publishing house and the bookstore at the same time in 2023.

Yeah.

So that huge sort of overnight inflection point in the growth of the whole business.So that was a huge shift.But other than that, I feel like it's been.It's been an everyday thing.I work all the time.Yeah, constantly.

Yeah, that makes sense too, because the.The bookstore.For our listeners who are not in Los Angeles, Zippy's Bookshop is in la, and that is one of my favorite bookstores.So that's probably me tracking that also, because you get the best writers and you get people in conversation, really great conversation partners.It's a really charming place.So tell me then, in.In the context of motherhood, has that changed your ambition or.Or how.How did that intersect when you were growing it and you realized that you were working all the time and you're.

Very present with your kids?

I mean, you.You and I have talked about twins and graduations and all the things.

Yeah.I mean, my son just walked in, like, two minutes ago.Yeah.Maybe I stepped on a beat.I'm like, you didn't step on a beat there either side of the coin such.But when I started it and my kids were much smaller, I was doing one podcast a week.So I didn't start working all the time.I mean, my kids are in preschool, so I was doing one a week.I was reading one book a week.And that felt like a lot to me.I mean, it was hard.It's grown as I've gotten better and quicker.Like, all of these are skills I feel like are muscles that I've developed over time, and I can read much more quickly now.

Oh, I was going to ask you that.How do you read quicker?Because I'm a slow reader.That was one of my questions for you today.

Well, my, my baseline was already quick.Like, I'm always a fast reader, but I have been able, the more I'm doing it, to like, even ratchet it up more.So for people who are like, I'm always going to be a slow reader, chances are, if you're feeling like you're slow at something, you're not good at something, you don't tend to, like, say, throw all your might into doing it.Right.Like, I am slow runner.Do I spend all my time running now?I don't even run at all.

Yeah, because it's frustrating.

Um, but if I were running all the time, I'd be getting faster.I see.You know?

Yeah.

So I think that the more you do it and the more you practice, your speed will improve.You will get that mastery.I mean, I know people obviously know how to read.Read, sure.I'm talking about a certain set of people who are reading and trying to get faster at reading, but it is a skill that you can improve on.And I've learned now how to interview, like, I joke that, like, I can't even make it through a whole dinner party because I'm so used to having 30 minute conversations.Like, I've done this like two, 300 times on my own podcast and I go on podcast.Like, this is basically what you get.I can basically make conversation for half an hour and then I'm out.

Yeah, you mastered that.So how did you get that intuition or pull to return to being the author yourself.So Blank was a book, if I remember correctly, that you had written years and years ago and then you returned to.

So I know it's all been kind of a mess.I mean, in truth, the collection of parenting essays that I was trying to sell that started this whole thing is really what has become now between chapters because.Because it is finally a Collection of essays of mine that is coming out and that so many years ago.Although there's only one essay that I had written at that time that's in this book.But still, I never gave up on wanting to be an author.That was like, my driving principle that the goal that over that lit up everything else.And I went through a lot of rejection.I mean, you know, there were some days where I was, like, interviewing an author and they were talking about all their rejections before they got their book published.And I was thinking, well, I'm really glad that worked out for you, you know, Mitch album.But, like, I keep getting my books rejected.Like, maybe it's not gonna happen for me.And I got to a place I was like, maybe.But then I just couldn't give it up anyway.Like, I'm like, gotta be away.So I've tried all types of different things.At the beginning, the one story I felt like completely driven to get out was about losing my best friend on 911 and happened while I was in business school.And it was this insane time of life that changed my life forever and changed my understanding of life.And I really wanted to get that story out.And so whenever I would get a no or this doesn't fit or blah, blah, blah, and I wrote that story as a novel.As a memoir.As a novel.I wrote it, like, so many times, and it took a long time for it to come out.And it didn't end up coming out until Bookends, which came out several years ago as a memoir.But I just couldn't give up on that story.

Yeah.

So I kept approaching it in all sorts of different ways.

Yeah.

Yeah.And now what about On Being Jewish?Because that one came out of your own personal the aftermath of October 7th.

Yes.That's true, too.So in addition to Bookends, which was a memoir I wrote years ago, and Blank, which was a novel that I wrote right after Bookends, which is sort of my inside publishing, you know, woman at an intersection of her life, friendship, horror, if you will, which is really fun to be him bestseller.So I was proud of that.

Yeah.

But before that, I had published an essay a week during COVID by an author glide had on my podcast, because I was trying to do lots of things to entertain everybody at home and lift up authors who were stuck and not on tour.So I started this Instagram live show and a book club, and these essays I did every week and whatever I could think of to help.So the essays, those essays became two different anthologies.Moms don't have time to.And moms don't have time to have kids.I donated the profits of that to help find a vaccine.This is a long time ago.So I knew how to do anthologies and I'm not intimidated by that process at all.I feel like I could do another 20 anthologies if I like.I really love doing them.When October 7th happened, I also like in Covid I wanted to help.Like what can I do?How can I contribute?How can I do something in service to the Jewish people if I can't eliminate anti Semitism, which of course is like impossible.But I was foolish enough to try by just like calling it out when I saw it.And I quickly realized like that's having no impact at all.Maybe if I gather voices of other people who are going through these will collectively be able to raise more attention and get have people understand what our lived experience is like.So I asked 200 authors.I got 75 to contribute and that was very quick project.I thought of it at the end of June.It was out by October 1st and that was on the USA Today list for 29 weeks.

So that was amazing.

We donated all those profits to artistic anti Semitisms and they're doing great work in helping authors and artists fight a lot of the things that are going on.But it was another example of like a time where everything felt upside down and I always revert back to stories, authors.Yeah, community, connection.How can I use all these things to help people through a tough time?And so it often ends up as an anthology or an event or a salon series or like my bookstore events.Like I feel like it's the same thing in different forms.

Yes.Do you feel like that book, the process of going through that book helped you with your own identity and your connection with your roots in Judaism.Did it change you in that way?

It further cemented my connection particularly to this one group of authors who now is like.I mean I literally actually was dreaming about them last night.This sound ridiculous but we cool.I love that tight knit group.It's ended up taking me to so many rooms around the country, Canada and whatever, where I've met the most interesting people and it has connected me to so many other Jewish people and non Jewish people who are interested and allies and everything.So that has been.It has been life changing for me.It has been affirming of the things I already believed but sort of deepened.Yes.So instead of like growing sideways, I feel like it went deeper instead of wider.

I could feel that just from being.And I Have the book, you know, and I haven't read the.All of the essays, but I pick it up when I feel compelled.And I. I use books that way Sometimes I'll, like, open up because I think everything is divinely orchestrated.So it's like, oh, which essay am I going to get today?But I could feel that in the book and in you sharing about the book.So I'm glad to know that that's how you personally benefited from it.I always think that the intention that we have inside the creative project on the other end, when someone receives that creative project, it's in there.It's coded in there, and I can feel it for sure in that book.So tell us about Between Chapters.So you've moved from in between.You were doing.You've also done retreats, you know, so we should add that in.So you launched that business.But I. I can't remember.The distance between.On Being Jewish and Between Chapters comes out next month.

So September 2026, it'll be about two years apart.

Okay.

Actually, yeah, basically exactly two years apart.Yes.Between Chapters is my own essays over the past 10 years.And it was as I went through this period of extreme change, of getting divorced and remarried and changing my name, gaining and losing friends, gaining and losing weight.Like, all the funny things that happened along the way that I think will be relatable, but also advice to my younger self and just wish I.What I wish I had known when I started my 40s, essentially, I think 50, and my kids are going to college and everything, so.And it's not about being perfect in any way.It's like all the mistakes, all the hurdles and losses and, you know, things like attacks on Jewish people.There are like a few essays on that, but also the Palisades fire and all the things that come up in life that are unexpected and how I got through them.Because I really love to read stories about how people get through tough things.Yes.So.So I included all of that.I also have launched a platform for other people to share their essays because as I'm saying, I just love creating essays.So on my substack@zippy o n.com, i've had almost 200 women send in their own essays.

Yeah.

Hey, we launch a new one of those.And I am getting so much out of those essays.I'm learning so much.All the contributors are like in a WhatsApp.And now they're all friends.So I just love this idea of stories, personal stories, bringing us closer together.

Yes.

What do you feel like you hear as a through line with women's lives, do you find that there's.There's themes that come up that you can relate to or that people of different ages or backgrounds can relate to when you, when you've read these contributions?

I think people always have an idea of what's coming next, and it often doesn't align next.I think a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I'm retired and I'm gonna, like, kick it, and, you know, relax.And they get there and they're like, oh, no, but wait, my kids still need me.And now I'm a grandmother, and now, you know, I have to take care of this sick person.Or, you know, like, it's not as it's.And then I have really young contributors who are just graduating college and being.Feeling all the pressure of what should I do next?And feeling like it should be this way, but actually it's this way.So I think women in general feel a lot of the shoulds this period of time.Like this, but it looks like this.

Yeah.

Or I want it to look like this, but it looks like that.And how do I wrestle with those.With those things?

Yes.When you have launched a book into the world, has that felt like you thought it would feel, or are there things in that process that had surprised you from that little girl who was dreaming about being an author?It sounds like that was the dream that started all of this.Really?

Yes.I have learned so much from launching books, not only my books, but now as a publisher sort of helping, you know, usher other books along the way.You know, I, I.Part of why I wrote Blank was to shine a light on some of the things I was most surprised about in the publishing industry.

Yes.

I just interviewed recently Harlan Coben, who's a thriller writer, and he has a new book about writing that's coming out, which I love.But he talks about this concept of incremental ambition, how when he started out, he just wanted to be a published author, and then he just wanted to get in a bookstore and he just.And I feel like the same way, like, I just wanted to have a book on a bookshelf.

Yeah.

And I wanted to have, like, multiple copies of a book and I wanted on shelf at that bookstore.I didn't want to be on the floor.I wanted, you know, I didn't just want a book to come out.I wanted it to sell well.I didn't just want it to sell well.I wanted it to, like, get picked by a book.Do, you know, like, it's like everything keeps racking up and I try hard not to get caught up in that.In fact, two chapters with, you know, we ended up publishing it at my own company, unlike all the other books, well, we published.I'm being Jewish now too, but all the other books I have had published by other publishers.And at one point I was like, who says it has to like be a book in terms of like having the sales tracks and getting on Amazon is like, what if I don't have like an ISBN number attached to it, but like it's just like a sweater.They're like, what are you talking about?Then?You know, if, if nobody was tracking the sales, I wouldn't fall victim to all of the measures and the, you know, where is it on Amazon and da, da, da.Like, I don't want to fall into that.I want to just be back to where I was, where I was like, I just want an author.But as soon as I achieve anything, I want to achieve the next thing.So I think that's the human condition are certainly mine for sure.

One, the people who come on this podcast and the people who listen to this podcast, I mean it's very about that balance between achieving and, or doing and being, let's call it that.That's even the broader doing versus being.And I feel like that's a major theme in the, the people I speak with in my life.

Yes.

So what is your hope with the retreats?That's another thing that has intrigued me.So that's another arm of your business.And I just feel, you know, I've had writers onto the podcast.I had Annabelle Monahan, which was so great.We were talking about the romance genre.It's like watching these big trends in the book business and retreating with other people who read has become this really incredible way that people get away from our phones and from our life.And you've done them in different cities.They always look so fun.I haven't been to one yet, but I hope to get to one.

Tell us about that.

Yeah, that part.

We started our retreats in 2023 and we've gone all over the place from Charleston to Santa Barbara to Aust.We, we Florida, Palm Beach.We've gone so many places.I think we've done 14 or 15 retreats.We do some day long retreats which we call petite retreats, which we've done in Chicago and, and other places.Naples, we're doing one.We have a couple coming up.But I, I love the idea of gathering people for a weekend and Having like a really nice like luxury experience where you didn't have to think about anything.The agenda was set, but not in an annoying way.Yeah, set things that like I would actually want to do.This is like what I do when I travel.I go visit the local bookstores, I go to a nice restaurant like you know, I leave time to wander around.I, you know, I love to go to a book talk.So I kind of craft these weekends that I think like minded women would be interested in.But fostering so much, leaving so much time to foster connection.Because mostly people who love books have a lot in common.Right.They're interested in character and what books have to share, particularly novels or personal stories or whatever.I'm not talking about like necessarily, you know, historical dense texts or something like that.But people who are interested in those types of books are interested in each other.Like they're interested in other people and emotions.And when you put a bunch of people like that in a room and give them time, just give them food.Honestly they could just sit there and just laugh.Like everybody, like they just don't stop talking the whole time.

Yeah.

Will come alone, you know, because you're never really alone.I feel like with another book lover.But many people come on their own and leave feeling so inspired and not in a hokey way, but just connection.

Yeah.

You know, refueled.When you go to coffee with a friend and you have that really good juicy conversation station and we try to make it as easy and effortless and fun for people as possible.And we always bring along at least 4 to 6 of the moment authors so that they can really get to know them as well.So it's, it's a joy.It's like it's really fun.We have two coming up in Santa Monica so I mean that's close by.

You're like yes, in October I think, right?Yeah.

And then look at that one, Naples in January.And I don't know, someone just approached us about like a ranch in Northern California and I'm like maybe, I mean I don't know, I don't horses anymore but I don't know.So I think that gathering in person, whether a full on retreat weekend which I highly encourage people to join and try or even an event at the bookstore.Like I think just the act of being in the anti AI.The anti.You know, dissociated online shopping, like let's just get together, you know.Oh, I read that book.Did you read that book?Like the conversations that happen even over the bookshelves at the store are so refreshing because you don't have to think about it.And you know, that's kind of the, the underpinning of what makes life a little more flavorful.

Yes.I love going to the bookstore for that reason.And I always feel like I connect with someone who's like minded when I leave.So it does.

It's very fulfilling.

I want to talk on that same, along those same lines about your business just to honor what you've built and the team that you've built.Because that's another thing that comes through in being in your world and dropping into your world.Have you instinctively or intuitively known when to hire, how to hire?Does that come from your degree?Does that like, tell us about the decision making part of that?And again, you're doing that at the intersection of doing something you love, raising kids, you know, being very devoted as a wife.And he's got a big job, so you're doing stuff for him.Tell us about decision making and kind of that business aspect.

Yeah, that's been a challenge.Yeah, I've learned how.I mean, to be totally honest, before I started this business, I'd had like babysitters.You know, I'm like, that was my people management.It's like, but, but I had worked in many settings and knew what I liked and what I didn't like as an employee.And so I've tried to model my business around the fact that we are all there as people, not just workers.So like, I never want people to feel that they're stuck at work.Like, we have super relaxed guidelines.We work in person three days a week in New York.I bring everybody from the office to my home and we have lunch together where we're not supposed to talk about work, but just like connect as people and like, you know, share movie tips and I don't know, whatever.Yeah, we, the summers we go remote so people can just like, you know, work from wherever, enjoy the nice weather.Like, I want people to have a good quality of life.I teamed up very early on with a woman named Anne Macedi, who is president of Zippy Media and publisher of Zippy Publishing.She had worked at Penguin random house for 30 years and is a total pro.She knows this industry inside and out, so she has been instrumental in helping me build this business.She is on the ground running the publishing side of things.Yeah, I like, I still spend probably 75% of my time on my podcast.Prep for the podcast, reading for the podcast, picking the books for the podcast, posting about the podcast.Like, probably, yeah, 60, 60 to 75% of my time is still that.So I would say the bulk of her time is on the publishing.We also have a great executive editor.I have a fabulous manager for the bookstore, but that wasn't my first manager of the bookstore.Right, right.I've learned how, I've learned how to, you know, I always have an instant connection to people, but that doesn't always translate into like, are they fulfilling the need that we have?And I've had to say goodbye to some people I really like because I'm like, oh, I thought we were going to go into this area of business, but it turns out we're not.And so I'm really sorry.

Yeah.

Been a challenge because we are a startup and I love to try different things.We've had like, classes, platforms, we've had a podcast, network.We've done a lot of things that don't exist today that were really interesting at the time.Like on being Jewish now, I started another essay platform around that that we're about to sunset.But we got hundreds of, you know, reader have been really interesting.But there's like a time and a place and I feel like I'm good at knowing when it's time to stop doing something and divert efforts to something else or like, and it's run its course.And like, I have no shame in that.Like, that served a purpose at the time and it was great.

Yeah.

Like, let's move on.So, but that does come with some personnel shifts, which I think is the nature of the beast in the startup environment like this.

Yeah.

And to be nimble, I mean, that's,.

I think that's what you're describing because I think, you know, when I've worked with, when I've supported women who are growing and launching and partnering with either friends or colleagues or someone in their business who's more experienced or more seasoned.You don't know what's good, that that's the vulnerability.You don't know how it's going to go.And so to be very open with the fact that the whole thing, no matter what happens, is going to be ever evolving, you know.

Oh, yeah.

However it goes in any direction, I,.

I, I would be shocked if my business looks the same in five years.

Like, right.

Launch, things will be different.You know, some things aren't as flexible.Like having a publishing company is not as nimble as saying yes.Yeah, like long, there's long timeline to publish books and everything like that.And same with the store.I mean, it's not like you can just, you know, change the store overnight.So those things are sort of fixed entities.Yeah, but.But I think you have to.I mean, a business can't be.You'll fall behind if you just stay the same because everybody else is racing past you.

Yes.

Right.Like, you can't just.You every.The.When the world is changing so fast, you.You have to keep swimming.You can't just, like, stay or you'll be washed away.So I'm very.I'm very aware of, like, what's going on and get.Making sure I have time to take in all the inputs that I need to, like, see where things are going and how to leverage some of the new tools coming out, how to, you know, assign my time for all of that.But I will say, you know, despite, you know, some starts and different, you know, extensions of the brand or whatever, I have had a team that's been with me from the beginning of.I think there's six of us who have been together for five years at this point, so that's beautiful.And contract.And, you know, our core team has been.Has been together since.Since the inception.

Yeah.I want to ask you one last question about this, because I get this question all the time.When people are starting businesses, how do you then relate to reading for fun?You know, you start the business around something that you love, and you still love reading, but now you have a business around the books that you're reading or now you have to book the podcast.You know, there's that.There's that channel of productivity around the experience that you were having with books before all of this.That was just very carefree.And so I have that question come to me.When people start a business around something they love, how do you relate to it?How do you balance that?Tell us about that, how that shifts.

Oh, I feel like I'm like.I've, like, figured out the secret to the world, which is making what you have to do the thing you love to do the most.I mean, I love reading.I, you know, I love the hunt for the next book that takes me completely out of myself.And it doesn't happen with every book, but that's like the challenge of the everyday.It has enhanced my love of books.Being in this business.It's exposed me to so many books I never would have read, which have opened up my mind and perspective in so many ways.I mean, I've interviewed two, 20, 300 people, and that's just on the podcast.That's not even all the events I do and everything like that.And it.I have a master class in life in creativity and resilience and all these things.I'm so lucky.So I still, even though I have a deadline, it's more the time of it than the fact it's a job.But I have to read on deadline a lot.But it still doesn't destroy.I mean, I'll still stay up late because I can't put a book down that's on my podcast the next day.Because I'm the one who picked it for the podcast.Yes, I love it.So I'm, I'm very happy with my, my love of books and storytelling has only increased since I've been doing it.

Yes, I feel that way about coaching because I feel like whether I was 17 years old in a dive bar in New Orleans, like talking to someone about their life or at 51, you know, having a coaching practice and connecting with people about what matters to them, it's like it never feels like I'm working.So I'm like you, we're lucky in that way.And I always encourage people, go do the thing you love if it's.If you can set up your life around that.So lastly, have you read anything great that you.That we should be reading?

What do you, what books are you.

Excited about right now?We're going to all be getting yours, so we'll, we'll link that order to read between chapters.

Well, I love a lot of the books that we decided to publish, I have to say.Oh, good.

Okay.

Some really interesting ones coming out this fall, like Desire Feeds the Feast, which is like a foodie coming of age memoir by a woman named Taraja Morel that's coming out this fall, as is one good thing by British author Alexandra Potter.I loved reading London Falling this summer.That was probably one of my favorite summer reads.And there's a beautiful memoir written in poetry actually by a woman named Alison Sweet Grant about her breast cancer experience.I loved it.It's called Lump.That's coming out in September.There's so many more, too.

I mean, beautiful.

There's, it's a, it's an embarrassment of riches.There's so many good books.

That's how I feel.My whole Instagram feed is saving my to be read list.And then I'm like, oh my gosh, I'll never, I'll never get through them all.

But putting what are you reading?What have you loved right now?

I always read romance in the summer, so I'm reading into the blue right now.You know all the, all the big ones.I have a bunch from you that I've tagged.I loved the Correspondent, you know, the, the.I don't read fast, you know, so I savor, I sit in the backyard.It's definitely the way I end my day is by reading.But what I've loved is what you spoke to today is the community around books.And you've done such a beautiful job in contributing that way.And here in Los Angeles, it's been amazing, especially post fires.You all did so much to, to help that community which is very near.

And dear to me.

So I'm just grateful that my listeners now know about you and what you've built and I'm so grateful for your time and we're all going to be looking for these books this fall and, and I just glad you get to do what you love.

Thank you.You too.

We celebrate that.Yeah, we have that in common.

It's a real gift to appreciate when your life lines up, the thing you have to do with the thing you love to do.And when I meet someone who's living in that alignment, like Zibby, it doesn't surprise me to hear how hard she had to work to get there.It doesn't surprise me that there were many frustrating setbacks and unexpected obstacles along the way.That's the nature of pursuing heart centered goals.My time with Zibby made me reflect on how much matters to us when we're pursuing these goals that come from our heart.It means we have a lot of thoughts and feelings and expectations about how it's all going to unfold.Zibby's life is an example of how every single step of the path can become woven into the experience of you loving the life you've consciously sought to build.Zibby's book world is a warm and welcoming universe of connection.A place she's created for us because she needs it herself.I'm finding that those kinds of creations come with a durability.Zibby's passion is real and her dedication is tireless.Zibby's open mindedness drives her success.It made me consider where I could be more open minded.Zivi so energized by learning and meeting new people and experiencing new ways of seeing the world.Even though Zibby meets us here as a book expert, she's not fixed in her expertise.She's always learning.And it's in that openness that her love for what she does has deepened.Open mind, deeper presence.After my conversation with Zibby, I made a list of questions.Each of these is inspired by what Zibby shared with us.And I think each of them is an invitation.

You may or may not have an.

Answer now to these questions, but these questions can open your mind and they can certainly open your heart.And that's the gift of meeting people here.Number one, what do you resort to when everything feels upside down?Is there a way to share those things that make you feel better?Is there a way to engage other people in those things?Number two, what dream do you have that you refuse to give up on?Is there something you can do today, even the smallest thing, to take a step towards that dream?Number three, what shoulds are directing your life right now?Make a list of them.As you review the list, notice where you can challenge one or two of those shoulds.I think it's hard to challenge all of them at once.Some of our shoulds are more deeply rooted than others, but even dropping one can help.Even softening the one that feels especially edgy can take a weight off of you.Number four.What is something you loved as a child that you still love today?How often do you give yourself the time and space to experience that thing?I always loved doodling as a kid.And when I can't fall asleep at night, sometimes now I doodle.I find it comforting and it occupies my racing thoughts.There's so many nights I fall asleep with a pen in my hand, just like I did when I was younger.There's something really sweet about the continuity of what we love.So much in life changes.We change.But no matter who you are or where you are or what's happening in your life, there's always something about you that loves what you always loved.It could be books like Zibby, or music like my husband Boyd, or lists like our last podcast guest, Amelia.It could be anything, but it's your thing.It's worth revisiting, and it's worth appreciating when you choose to experience it.It's sort of a miracle that something you've loved for so many years is still available for you to love today.And number five, what are you learning from this chapter in your life?I'm not talking about mastered lessons that can come later.I'm asking about real time learning.You may be in the middle of a chapter or you may be between chapters.Wherever you find yourself, you're not alone.And we're learning together.Thank you, Zibby.I'm so grateful for the community you've created through Zibby.Media and really just you being you.Books are a portal to possibility and stories are the thing that connect us the most.Thank you for taking that masterclass in life, creativity and resilience and then turning around and offering it to us through your words and your devotion to lift up other voices.Thank you for offering us your latest book, reminding us that being Between Chapters is actually a part of the story.As much as it can be an uncomfortable place, an uncertain place, it is also a place rich with discovery and becoming a place we all share in some capacity at some point.This is the power of books to connect and the way you have harnessed that power and shared it with us is remarkable.To find out more about Zibby and order her new book, Between Chapters, please visit the Show Notes okay, that's it for now.I will meet you here again soon.

Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening.I'm so grateful we get to share life in this way.As always, full Show Notes are available@paigenolan.com podcast there you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways, and any resources mentioned in our conversation.If you enjoyed this episode Episode I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review.You can do that by visiting pagenolan.com love your reviews, really do help people to discover the show.And if you know someone specifically who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share.I'll meet you there with your friends.Lastly, if you have any questions or comments or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meet me me there@pagenoland.com I would love to hear from you.Thank you to the team that makes this show possible.Podcast production and Marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonnell Cover photography by Innis Casey okay y', all, that's it for now.I'll meet you there again.

Sam.