S3 E7: Creative Paths: Amelia Wilson's Journey to Happy on Purpose

I kind of blew that up. My subconscious finally had enough and came out one day and I quit a job on the day that I was meant to start it.I had taken a consulting job and I called my boss the morning that I was meant to show up and said, sorry, I can't do this. And you know, made up some excuse and he was furious and threatened to sue me. And I'm, I, I, I might.I engineered a situation in which I could not get another job. And it was that sort of turning point that forced me into therapy finally.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan. Welcome to I'll Meet yout There, A place where heart centered conversations are everything. Living what matters is the truest thing,.

And sharing the journey is the best.

Hi everyone and welcome back. I love my guest today. I've known her for over 20 years and I'm delighted for you to get to know her too. Amelia Wilson is meeting us here.Amelia is a dear friend of mine, a wife, a mother, and the founder of two digital publications. The first one she founded is called Happy on Purpose.It's a best selling substack newsletter about habits, happiness and thriving in midlife and it reaches over 15,000 subscribers.And the second one, her latest venture on substack is called Tennessette and it's a lifestyle newsletter for recreational tennis lovers that covers skill and style. I met Amelia decades ago in St. Louis. We both married men from St. Louis.Our husbands, Jim and Boyd have been dear family friends since high school and for many years. Boyd and I spent the Thanksgiving holiday in St. Louis and we would get time with the Wilson family.Amelia and I would get to visit and talk about family lives and motherhood and our careers and shared passion for reading and writing. Over the years I've related to Amelia's quest for meaningful work and her love for creative writing.I've been on that same quest and share that same love. We both struggle to find clarity in our career paths.This episode is special to me because Amelia has made her way through ups and downs and finally landed on a career that is satisfying and meaningful to her and writing is at the center of her work life. Now. This is an inspiring story for anyone moving through the ups and downs of finding purpose.You're going to hear about the road Amelia traveled to get to a place where Happy on Purpose and Tennessette have become creative outlets for her to share writing and advice and also how these newsletters create community that brings joy and connection to Amelia's everyday life. We talk about the courage it takes to move away from what looks good on paper and find oneself outside of the lines.We talk about childhood dreams and the hints that we get about our future from an early age. We talk about the challenge to know and say what you want and the dinner party problem when you're going for it.We talk about trusting feelings, giving yourself permission, and the truth about being discovered as an artist. Amelia reveals the secret document that helped her to launch herself in the world of substack writing.And she gives us some great advice about what she's discovered is the best way to course one's life path. We end our conversation with what she's loving about, being her own boss and the reason midlife is full of purpose and meaning for her these days.As far as happiness goes, Amelia is an expert, not because she's been perfectly happy her whole life, but because she is so real about life and how challenging it can be to feel happy. Her words of wisdom will definitely point you in the direction of your own happiness. Enjoy my conversation with Amelia Wilson.

I'd like to start in the context of Happy on purpose, just like that title.I've followed your work forever, so I know how perfect that title of your work and being on substack and having this very robust newsletter with tons of followers. And I'm so excited that you're here for my listeners to learn about it.So I think the backdrop of this conversation is kind of your path through all of that. And I get to know you personally and be a friend for years and years, so I know how intentionally you live.And so I want to start, you know, when I know where I'm going, I as, you know, like to go back. So I really want to start with you younger, your childhood. If this adult life that you're living now feels like something you could have.

Expected or if it's a total surprise.

Or take me into what, how you were when you were younger and let's then get into, you know, your path to where you are now.

Yeah, you know. Oh, that's such a fun question. It's fun to think about what I was like as a little girl. Yeah. Yeah.

And I didn't know you then, so.

It's good for me, too.We didn't know each other then well, you know, so one of my talismans, or I'm like kind of superstitious and I think I'm getting more so as I get older, one of them is I have beside my bed a picture of myself as a little girl that I think sums up my little Girl energy. And like I'm at a party, I'm wearing a pink party dress. And my face, I mean, for people listening, they can't see it, but my face is like.Yeah, imagine like the biggest smile.

Open that smile. Yeah.

Over the top. Little girl at her birthday party. And I just, I love looking at that picture. And I like to look at it. I keep it beside my bed.Sometimes I forget it's there, but when I remember to look at it, I put it there to remind myself that that's who I was as a little girl. Just fearless, open, excited.

Yes.

Whole of life just like raring to go, enjoying the party. And I think that's who I was as a little girl. And then, you know, as happens to many of us, life, you know, you were socialized.You know, we go to school, our parents were taught to like, tamp it down, you know, sit still, don't rock the boat, put other people first. You know, we absorb all of these things about, you know, how to be a good girl. And I think, you know, so I think that's who I was as a little girl.And then my family, I grew up in Australia and I have one sister and my parents were married, but very, very unhappily married. In our house, we. There was a lot of mental illness and dysfunction and violence also in our house, growing some alcohol abuse issues stuff as well.So, you know, I think my very small childhood years were joyful before I'm aware, you know, before. Before I really understood the emotions around me. And I think my parents probably became increasingly unhappy.But, you know, by the time I was 19, I. I had to leave home and get far away from my parents then. Yeah, basically began a process of estranging myself.

Yeah, that independent spirit too, in you, is that. Do you think that was in you before you had to be self reliant? Do you think that kind of go get it.That's how I think of you, as like, I'm gonna go do the thing I'm gonna do, you know, in a good way.

Yeah. It's funny because I think that is my essence as a little girl. That's who exactly was.And then, you know, through my middle school and teenage years, my parents. One of the things was that my mother in particular was very manipulative, emotionally and extremely controlling.And so I felt very constrained and it was this physical violence. So, you know, if we stepped out of line, we were punished severely for it. And so I think that, you know, you, you start as who you are.You like the essence of who you are, you know, like joyful and wanting to be free and adventurous and curious and creative. And then I became a lot smaller during that period.

Yeah.

I think I've honestly been gradually finding my way back to that little girl. Well, the rest of my life, you know.

Yeah.

Getting closer to it now that I. Yeah. In charge of my own life now, you know.

Yeah.

It takes a long time to feel like that. I remember it wasn't until I woke up on round about my 40th birthday feeling like, oh, wow, my parents can't tell me what to do anymore.I mean, it takes decades for sure. Some of us never do.

Yeah. It was for sure my 40th too. I would say year 38 was when I was starting to wake up and say, this is my life. Like it's my life.Which seems so obvious, but it's not. Yeah. It's not until you really start to look at your choices and say, do I have to choose this or can I choose that?And we both have started, you know, left organizations to start our own thing.And I think if that wasn't shown to you, if you weren't encouraged to do that or if you were independent in that venture, like we both did that independently. It's just a whole different thing. It takes real agency and like a real wake up to say, oh, I want to do this.

Yeah. And I think also in my case as well, not only was I not encouraged to do anything really particularly independent. No.I was encouraged to do the right things. The good on paper. Yeah. Which I think many of us are. And.And even if our parents aren't abusive in any way, you know, like, that's just what, you know, do the right thing. Check all of the boxes. Choose the safe things.

Yes.

And I think going out on your own and doing something creative and scary and new that you're making up for yourself is why it's way outside of those.

Yes.

Did you have your sight set on America?

That is a funny question. No. Um, no. But when I was a teenager, one of my fantasies that has not come true was that I wanted to be an actress. Really original.I wanted to be an actress. And in my head I have this idea that I wanted to be a New York actress.Not a word actress, because I had very naive and limited understanding of the difference between the two guys from the world.And my idea was the New York actresses, the theater, Broadway, it was all civilized and intelligent and intellectual and less about like, you know, your looks. And I, I just had this idea, but I Moved to London. Many of us as Australians, we get a working visa to. As of Right.To work in any of the Commonwealth countries. So many of us go to the uk. So I did that with my friends after I graduated university and.And it was there that I started working for an American company and then my slides on New York because New York was clearly where all the exciting stuff was happening, where all the calibrates were. And I was kind of like, I want to go there too. That's writing. Yeah.

What did you think of it in those early years? First Rising? Yeah. First arriving.

I did not like it. Yeah, I liked it.

It wasn't what you thought it was. You liked the quality better. Yeah.

No, I mean New York, you know, you see so many movies.

Yes.

So many movies are made in New York and it so romanticized.

Yeah.

I moved in the winter and I moved six months before 9 11. So I was in New York City just a couple of blocks away from 9 11. So that colored everything.But I think arriving in the winter and it's a gritty, busy city and no one was taking me under their wing and helping me do anything right. You know, I didn't understand and everything is so expensive and fast moving and. And my job was fast moving.You know, it wasn't like I had six months to get acclimated. It just went, busy job in London. It's a busy job in New York. Then I figured it all out. But I did spend, ironically, 911 cemented my.It made me want to stay in the city more. I spent this before that thinking, I think I'm going to leave. I think I'm going to leave. And I don't know if I really like it yet.And then suddenly this sense of camaraderie.

Yeah.

That engulfed the city often I live in actually made me want to stay.

Yeah.

You feel like a New Yorker, actually.

Yeah.

I have spoken about that to people and I've written about that moment. I was in grad school at the time and on the Upper west side of Columbia. And it was right after that tragic event happened.It was like everybody came together.It was so beautiful and it didn't last forever, but it was that those days, those immediate days after I felt like were so defining of my experience in New York and so life affirming where it's like, oh, this is really what a city could be like if we all live together in the city. It felt so unified.

It did. And you know, and there were no tourists for quite a while, you know, so it felt Smaller and more.It was just us, the people that were in the city and that because also I was working in financial services. A lot of people left.Yeah, a lot of them were, it sort of happened at the same time as the tech bubble burst or around, you know, that that was all happening at the same time. So a lot of people got laid off a lost their jobs, Broadway shut down, you know, so a lot of those people left the city.It was, it was like a real upheaval for the city and it felt like the city got smaller and closer knit.

Yeah.

Period of time.

Had you met Jim, your husband?

No, I had. Okay, so you didn't know. We met two years later. We met in 2003.

Did that change when you kind of started settling down in a relationship that was serious? Did it change the way you felt about New York?

I mean, by then I was pretty committed to the city. Yeah, you know, I, I, I'd been there for a couple of years already by myself.I'd made friends, I was pretty, I was getting deeper into my career in financial services. And so yeah, I mean, and he'd already been in the city he life. He'd already been in the city for like maybe 10 years when I met him.Yeah, we weren't going anywhere.

What did you think of the Midwest?

What did you think of St. Louis?

It is a city that I still feel like geographically, I don't know. Well, I couldn't find my way around St. Louis if you paid me money. But the people are fantastic.And that's what he says about the Midwestern is, you know. Yeah. Few people actually said to me, oh, that makes sense. An Australian marrying a Midwesterner.That makes total sense because there's sort of a maybe vibe. But yeah, I mean, I can't think of a person I've met from St. Louis or the Midwest that is not a good person.

I know they're the best. They're just the best. So at this time, you're navigating this ambitious side of you.You're in your lane, you're in financial services, you're partnered. Tell me about how motherhood has played out. Like, did you always know you wanted to be a mom?Were you imagining raising kids in New York and kind of the intersection. I, I know there's a lot of listeners always, we're all interested in this topic.Like how do you manage that intersection where you want to do something professionally or creatively, whether that's for your own self expression or security. You're partnered and then you have that motherhood piece.

Yeah. Yeah. It's. I mean, that it's just such a huge transition.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's interesting. Jim and I were just talking about this the other day. We both just always assumed we would have kids.And so when we got together and the relationship got serious, we were talking about how many kids we wanted to have. It was really how many, not whether.

Yes.

It's so interesting. I think just only 20 years later, my daughter, my first child, will turn 20 soon.How we see the generation younger than us, even his younger brother, who's 40, the difference, you know, they've.He and his wife have been considering whether or not they want to have children, and a lot of the younger cousins that we're related to are saying that they definitely don't want to have children. It's just interesting. I think the idea that we were definitely going to have children for Jim and I was a very. Was just.We were just brought up to assume that's what you did.

Yes.

For better or worse. You know, it's. It's so interesting to me that has already changed.

Yes.

In 20 years. That. That's not how we're bringing kids up anymore. People are assuming that they're going to.

Have kids or that they'll get married. I think there's a conversation about partnering or however they're going to do it. So, yeah, definitely. It's more. It requires more conversation.

Yeah.

I like you. I just got in it and I was like, oh, we're married. When are we having a baby? Like, you don't even really talk about.

That's what we're doing. Yeah.I mean, the really crazy thing, though, was that neither of us would have ever thought when we were growing up that we would raise kids in New York City.

Yeah.

That. And we just did that without thinking, you know, where our jobs were. And so it seemed. And it was well before the kind of work from home revolution.So it just seemed inconceivable.

Yeah.

We would leave our jobs and raise ourselves. You know, just. And. And looking back there maybe wasn't the. We. None of these decisions were particularly well thought out. You know, we just.Just went along and. And did it and worked it out as we went. But when it came to my career, it was kind of interesting.And I wonder if any of your listeners have had this experience. I was becoming very dissatisfied with my career right about the time I got married and got pregnant. I had a big job. It was very stressful.You know, it sounded. Sounded great on paper and on Paper. And lots of people were very impressed and I occasionally enjoyed it.You know, there were things that I really enjoyed. I traveled a lot internationally and I actually loved that about the job.Like I was already starting to recognize that wasn't going to be great with kids. I, I had no idea how I was going to manage that. I just, it was, I was just couldn't think about it.

Yeah.

And you know, I was secretly hoping that motherhood was going to be so transformative that it would solve this huge problem for me.

Yeah.

And I would love being a full time mom and I can just ease into that and leave my town or maybe do something part time. That was fun. But it just didn't work out that way for me. You know, I was unhappy in the job that I had went on maternity leave.I then was discovered that I was unhappy as a full time mother. I went and rediscovered that I still hated my job.

Yes.

And so I found myself in a really uncomfortable position. You know, and I think that who knows if anything could have been done differently.But the advice I will certainly give my daughter is to one not assume that motherhood is going to solve a problem. You know, like if there's a career problem, there's a career problem and motherhood is not going to solve it.

Yes.

Because I had never in my life thought that I wanted to be a full time mother. It was really just a hope I was holding on to as an escape from this.

Yes.

This job that I had become really I didn't like anymore. But I couldn't see a way out of it. Because it was so good on paper. No, it just was, it was like, how could you give up this great job? Yes.

And so how did you.

I finally, I mean, it took me a long time actually. I mean I, I gave it up because I ended up having some pretty serious fertility issues.After my daughter was born, about a year after it became clear I couldn't get pregnant again. So then it, then we embarked on a multi year process of figuring out how to expand, how we could expand our family.We ended up adopting a second child. And so my kids are four years apart. But so during that period I took some time. I, I was able to, I used it as an excuse to be honest.I was like, look, I'm gonna have to have a bunch of surgeries. You know, I just, I, I have to take a step back from work. So I took a step back from work.They kept the door open and lo and behold, I went back again a couple of years later.

Before Teddy was born before.

When it became clear that the surgeries were not going to work. I was definitely infertile. We were not going to be able. I wasn't going to be able to have a baby. So then.

So before you even went down the road with no knowing you were going to get Teddy?

Yeah. No. And I wrote about this recently, actually, in my substack. This. There was.I knew that this wasn't the right career for me and I kept going back to it because I was really afraid to do what I really wanted to do, which was start my own thing.

Yeah.

And it wasn't. It took me until my late 40s to get up the courage to do that, you know, So I. Yeah.

Do I want to pause on that just for somebody who's having that same moment in their life, do you think it's.That you knew what you really wanted to do and you weren't aware of it or do you think it hadn't been revealed to you yet and you didn't want to sit in the uncertainty like of just being a full time stay at home mom or just the uncertainty of if I quit this, I don't know what I'm doing next?

That is such a good question. I think it was a combination of a lot of things. You know, I think that I had not. For sure, I had not yet processed my childhood trauma.

Yes.

Yes. And you were a mom now. So now all that stuff was probably coming up.

Yes. Which.

Yeah.

Me. That is one of the things, you know. And you don't know that until you become a mother. Although maybe people tell you and you don't listen. Yes.Becoming a mother is going to bring up all your childhood issues 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah. And I had a persistent dad. This. What I knew was that I was unhappy in this career and it was not right for me. I just knew it. I. 100%.There was no question about that. And what I kept fantasizing about and wanting to do and coming up with different ideas. Well, was different businesses, different business ideas.I would be constantly making lists and coming up with. Oh, making lists.

We're gonna get to the list.

Of lists. Lots of. Yeah. I loved making lists of potential businesses I could start and I'd start. I'd write a business plan about it and I'd fantasize about it.And I, I would, you know, I was just like an idea machine for all of these different things that I could do. And I think the, the key and the, the thing there was, you know, kind of the hint was I didn't like what I was doing.I wanted to do something that was entrepreneurial, essentially creative and entrepreneurial.I did not know what it was, though, and I definitely did not have the confidence or the encouragement to step outside of the unknown and the safe and to do something really. I mean, not even necessarily very risky, but something that just was, like, unwritten, that I was gonna. Yeah. Yeah.

So do you feel like in that period, you.By you making the list and brainstorming the different business ideas at the same time as your kids are younger and you're at the job that you don't like, do you think that satisfied, like, was that worth it for you to keep brainstorming and, like, poking around it? Because I had a similar experience of still kind of poking around things and outlining different businesses or ways that I could do my own groups.But then I was at teaching preschool full time, which was. I was really burning out and had three kids under three at home.But I just got off the phone with a friend yesterday in the same situation that you and I are describing, and she's younger than we are, and I was telling her, do that. Do, like, what we're talking about.Make lists and notice what catches your enthusiasm and look at the websites that you're going to when you don't even realize you spent an hour on that website. Like, what's captivating your attention. Do you think that helped you by doing that? Like, just stir the pot a little bit?

I think it did.But I think I also went around in circles a lot because for me, crucial issue was I could not give myself permission to simply say what I wanted and then do it, I just couldn't. I was unable to do that.And until I got the right therapist and got honest in therapy and engaged really, in seriously hard work around those particular issues, I would. Couldn't. It didn't make. I could make all the lists in the world. I was just gonna keep lists. I was never going to step beyond that.And I see it in people quite a bit. You know, you.I have quite a few friends, actually, who are very creative and clearly entrepreneurial and come up with ideas all of the time, say they're about to do it, and then, you know, six months later, a couple months later, you check in, they haven't done it, and it's. There's some, like, inner fear holding them back.Maybe not the same issue as mine, but I do think it's scary to say out loud, I want to do whatever it is, because whatever it is. If we're holding it inside and it's really important and special to us.We are afraid that we are going to be ridiculed for it if we've been brought up in a certain way, which many women have been. You know, you're afraid, you want to keep it precious and you kind of want to keep it protected in secret.

Yes.

And so then going out and doing it opens you up to potential criticism and doubt and failure, which is horrible and scary. And we don't want that to happen.

Yeah.

You know, I think another thing that held me back for a really long time, and I've talked about this quite a bit with other women, was it was so hard for me to quit a well defined job to do something undefined.

Yeah.

It was easier to quit a well defined job to become a full time mother, because that's well defined. You know, I am a sniping mother. I am doing. I am with my kids. That is a defined job that people understand that if you go out to a party, can explain.

Yes.

If you job to start a thing that you're making up. I don't know, it's super awkward. Like, I felt really insecure for the first few years that I was beginning a career as a writer.I felt like so, like squirrely about saying that I am a writer or I am doing this. Like, I. I was like, but I'm not a lawyer. I can't just explain. Like, I just felt so, I don't know, intimidated by that.

Yeah.

This with other women we call the dinner party problem. Like, what do you say when someone asks you what you do at a dinner party?

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, it's. I relate to it so much, especially with writing, because writing takes so much time. You and I have talked about writing so much.You're one of my most supportive friends in that area of my life. And it's embarrassing. I mean, I've been writing for years, you know, and it's like, do I have a bunch of bestselling books? Nope. But do.Have I been more fulfilled by my writing?

Yeah.

Cause I started a blog in 2014 and like, you, like, when you start actually interacting with readers, Whether you have 10 readers or 10,000 readers, it's so gratifying and then you can really understand it. But before 2014, before I'd ever shared a blog with anybody, it.I was always, I have three manuscripts in the drawer and I'd always be talking about it and struggling with time around it and what is it? And is it valid? Is it Enough, you know, if you're not.

It blows my mind. I think about this all the time. Basically all artists.

Yeah.

No one asks you to create your art. Nobody asked Picasso mean anything.You know, he just decided to paint and became a painter and probably spent years doing it when no one knew, you know?

Right.

Every artist is just like this. You're doing it by yourself until other people get to see it and react to it. Judge it and judge good or it's judged bad. However it's judged.But it just. It's like. So it blows my mind. It's the most unusual type of work and job, but adds so much to the world and it's so worth while people do it.But it is when you're the person doing it, you know, Like, I think I was in an airplane one time sitting next to some total random stranger and I. And because he was a random stranger, I wanted to practice saying I'm a writer. And he did. He said to me, so what do you do? And I said, I'm a writer.And he said, so what books have you written?

Oh, boy.

Well, I was like, that's great. It's embarrassing to say you were a writer.

That's called. That's called exposure. Emotional. You're exposing yourself to that moment with the stranger on the plane. So you get better at that moment.

Ouch. It was out. I had another friend when I told. I have one of my close friends when I told her just casually over drinks one night that I was.At that point I was writing a screenplay. This was very, very early on. And I. The first thing that I decided that I was going to write was a screenplay.

Yeah.

And I mentioned it to her just sitting there at drinks, and her reaction was like. She seriously turned to me and laughed out loud and said, I've known a lot of creative people in my time and I can tell not one of them. Oh, no.

Oh, no. How did you recover from that? Did you just laugh it off?

I mean, I. We were drinking wine and I. Logical. Like, I just didn't say anything. Just keep a logical. And you know, it was funny.I did feel and think in that moment. I. Interestingly, my initial. My first thing that I thought was, wow, that's about her, not about me.You know, she had such an immediate reaction and it was so oddly strong, you know, it was kind of that I. It. It didn't actually even feel that personal. So I was.

Yeah.

But I feel I certainly never forgotten it, you know?

Right.

But I bet she doesn't remember it. It didn't feel she didn't put a lot of thought into it. It was just kind of. Yeah, yeah.

Were you writing a screenplay when you finally left financial services to do that full time? Take us into the final. Like when you actually got the courage to make the jump. Yeah, do something more creative.

So Paige, I'm a slow learner and you know, so even though way back 20 years ago, I knew I didn't want to, I, I, okay, so I knew I didn't want to work in financial services. I guess it wasn't yet clear to me that I also didn't want to work for anyone else and that I actually wanted to be a writer.That took me a lot longer to figure out.So I, what I thought and you know, I think another thing that I really learned in therapy that has been incredibly helpful was to stop thinking my way through every problem. You know, I, I, I used to think that I could solve a feeling problem by thinking, you know, and I.

Finally learned I still do that. Can I just journal about this or like read a self help book?

Look at all the books in my office. Oh, the number of books I read about finding my career and what color my cheese.

Oh my gosh.

We' talked about those.

The North Star, Martha Beck.

And you get something from all of my life. You do every single one of those books. At one point I counted and I think I've read a hundred. Well, at that point, years ago. Read 201 or 102.

I'm right there with you.

Yes.

104. I don't know. But it took me longer. So first, so I pivoted from financial services into nonprofit fundraising. Okay.Because I thinkingly justified that to myself as I'm doing good for the world.

Yes.

That's what it is. I've got to leave big bank corporate and go work for the good guys in yeah. And there's tons of them in New York.So I worked for lots of them and I did enjoy it and it was great experience and I found that I had, I was able to fundraise fairly naturally, which is always a sought after skill in nonprofits.

Yeah.

And then I did set up my own, I was working for myself as a consultant, even though I was working for companies, but I was working as a consultant. I did find that, I loved that. So that was a clue.

Yeah.

Liked working for myself, making my own hours, being in total charge of my schedule, working from clients offices. But it took me several, I mean I think I did that for seven years.

Yeah.

Well, I finally, I Kind of blew that up. My subconscious finally had enough and came out one day and I quit a job on the day that I was meant to start it.I had taken a consulting job and I called my boss the morning that I was meant to show up and said, sorry, I can't do this. And you know, made up some excuse and he was furious and threatened to sue me.And I, I, I, I might, I engineered a situation in which I could not get another job. And it was that sort of turning point that forced me into therapy finally.

Yes.

And into like really reckoning with what I. Like, I wanted a career. I knew I didn't want to be a full time mom. Yeah, right. I had explored that. I knew it wasn't for me.I knew that I had something that I really wanted to do and some purpose that I wanted to do. And I was like a little tormented by the fact that I couldn't figure out what it was.And I mean, if I could have gone and crawled into my therapist's pocket and lived with her, this was this bloody problem. Like, I just, it was, it would have. I was like crawling with like, it just was.So I hated the feeling that I was meant to be doing something and I didn't know what it was and I was wasting my time and wasting my talents and just, yeah, felt just so frustrated.

But yeah. Isn't that amazing how we create that chaos? You create the big thing and then, then it has to change. We've done that in our marriage.Like, you create the big, like distance or the big moment and then it's like, why are we doing this? Like, we totally like each other.Like, let's just talk about the thing that neither one of us wants to talk about and change how we're relating to each other, which is completely doable. But you have to get so honest. It's so confronting and it's so scary.

It is so scary. And so what?I keep learning about honesty, especially when it comes to our feelings in relationships with other people or whether it be about who we want to be and the type of life we want to be living and what's making us happy or unhappy, you know, like structurally in our life.

Yeah.

It feels so scary before you're honest, before you just say to whoever the person.

Yes.

Is, I don't want to do this anymore, or this is making me unhappy, I don't like this. Or I've changed my mind. You know, whatever it may be, it just feels so terrifying before you say it, but then once you say it it's just not that big.

Yes.

Like you say, it can be solved. It's just a feeling that you need to express and work through and deal with.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

But when we keep it inside and keep it secret and try to solve it in inside our own head.

Yes.

Somehow it becomes bigger and bigger and bigger and unsolvable.

That's right.

And when you get to that point where you, you're now in therapy, you know that career is kind of the avenue for you to understand yourself. You know, that's where. And you and I both shared that like a lot of career conflicts.Like not everybody, not all friends, not everybody, not all my clients. We're not always talking about career conflict.But I think that is a channel for a lot of women to grapple with their, you know, self definition, like who they are and how they express themselves and worth in the world. Did you immediately after the screenplay start poking around with a newsletter, like an actual audience of readers?

No. Yeah, that took me a while.

Okay.

The, the first, I started first. I read the Artist's Way while I was in therapy.I read the Artist's Way or in almost like as soon as I started therapy, I was dabbling in reading the Artist's Way. Like unrelated. Not thinking. I was just grasping at straws. Like, what, I can't get a job because I've just blown up my career.You know, I've actually sort of ruined my reputation or I felt like I had. And plus I knew it was not making me happy and it was wrong for me.

Yeah.

So I knew I had to solve this career problem and I was again reading every self help book I could and I had Artist Way. So I started doing the morning pages and yeah. In it. And I think I just, I sort of, I. In one of my lists was an idea for a screenplay.And so I just sort of was like, okay, I don't have a job, but I've got to do something. And so I started, I started working on that. I showed one friend bits of it, but I never even writing screenplay is actually really hard.

So hard. It's so, so hard.

Yeah.

You googled for it. Like there's a whole form and everything. And I just didn't. As I got further into understanding that it didn't really grab me.But then shortly, as soon as I finished therapy or just as I was completing, like it's sort of a two year, very intense, very transformative experience, I began writing a book. And it was the book. I completed the book and it was Because I had completed the book and then was trying to find a publisher for it.

Yeah.

Writing a newsletter. Because the advice that you get in the publishing industry, I mean, ideally you start finding an audience before you write a book.

Right.

When you're writing the book.

Right.

But in one place, I didn't know that. So I had written the book and then I was told to build an audience. So that was why I started.

Yeah.

And did you just immediately start with the tone that you have now in terms of sharing?

Yes and no. It was Always Happy, was always in the title. It's now my substack is called Happy on Purpose. Originally it was called Some Happy Scribbles. Yeah.I had. Because for years I had had this secret document that I called the Scribble Pad.And that was where I sort of like tried to work out all of my angst and a lot of my career issues and when I was dating, my love life issues. And it was just, it was like my journal essentially. And so the original blog was called Some Happy Scribbles.And it was, what I wanted to write was sort of advice. And I wanted, that's what I wanted to do from the beginning. From the beginning, I wanted to be giving people advice about how to be happ.Because I have been very, very unhappy and I have. And I spend a lot of time and every day for me, I don't wake up feeling on top of the world necessarily.

Right.

I find that life is made up of a lot of really boring, difficult struggle day to day, minute by minute.And you know, and I feel like I'm constantly coming up with strategies to kind of manage my mood and manage my, you know, I want to feel optimistic and upbeat. But feelings management, that's what a friend of mine. Feelings management's an all day job.

They're always, I have to say, like on this podcast, I've referenced anxiety before. That is one of my go to Feelings and lists and like, how to, to like advise myself is so empowering.And then also one of my favorite conversations to have is with young people who struggle with anxiety because I feel like when you are called up into organizing your thoughts, vulnerably facing and sharing what you have felt, you know, and really opening your heart to what you have felt. It just puts you in the position to, to make it, as we were saying earlier, like, it's, it gets smaller, it gets manageable, like it gets more real.It's not this huge idea. Like I have this disorder and it's pathological and no, like the more I talk about it, the more everybody I know has some version of it.

100%. Yeah.

And it feels great to help people with it.You know, when you give advice or when you share and somebody else is on the receiving end of that, you think, oh, I can handle it, because now I can hear my own voice.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's funny because that's. I. That was what I wanted to do at the very beginning, but I didn't even give myself permission to do that.I. I had given myself permission to stop working in jobs that I didn't want to do.

Yeah.

And then gave myself permission to write because I realized that was something I did want to do. Then I gave myself permission to write a book. Then it was to start a newsletter.But even after I started the newsletter, I did still wasn't allowing myself to write what I wanted to write, because now people were reading it. Not very many people, but people were reading it. And I knew most people, they were like friends and family.And I was kind of like, everyone's gonna say, who's she to give advice. She has no special degree. Like, she didn't go to school as a therapist. She didn't.

Yeah.

She doesn't have a happiness background. Like, why?You know, I spent a couple of years, probably 18 months around the edges of it, and it was very interesting because what I found was anytime I did write advice, straight up, find ways to do this or whatever, his. His lessons learned, I've learned about whatever. Parenting. Parenting. Yeah, about quite a bit. I mean, those were always my most popular.And, yeah, I never. I still didn't trust it. I was kind of like, wow, gosh, it's popular, but it must have been a fluke.And then I'd write another one that would give advice on marriage or something. Again, be popular. So then finally, a couple years into it, I gave into it and was like, okay, I'm gonna.Oh, I. I surveyed my readers a couple of times, too.

Oh, I remember those.

Yes.

I loved filling those out. Yeah.

Yes, I do want advice from you. So I'm like, okay, that's what people want. So I still feel.Honestly, sometimes when I hit publish, I'm still a little like, God, this is embarrassing. Some people must read this guy and go, God, what is this woman? She thinks she knows everything. But, yeah, I don't.But, you know, I'm just trying to be helpful. I put it out there with only good intentions. And that's when I feel embarrassed or kind of like cringe.I say to myself, what's wrong with putting something out there with good intention?

Right.

What? That's how criticize. But that's all I'm doing.

Yes, I have that same feeling because when my writing goes into my perception of something, you know, it typically starts with a family or a personal situation. Then I reveal the stress or confusion or emotional side of that and then the turnaround.And as I'm rereading it, sometimes I will have the image of somebody else reading it and misinterpreting it and saying, oh, could they think it's this or could they think it's that? And I have to go back to is it true for me, like the way I'm thinking about it because everybody thinks so differently.So the more personal you get, you can go crazy thinking that way. But I actually think the more personal and true you get, the more universal it gets.So it's like I just have to stay in my truth of it even if it's going to be misinterpreted or whatever.Because if I'm true and if I'm personal, it can be understood by a lot more people than if I'm trying to outthink the reader or like protect myself from whatever entitlement I'm not seeing about myself or whatever it is, you know, or arrogance or whatever.

It's one of the things I enjoy about this kind of writing as well, especially like the personal essays is it helps you get to know yourself better.

It does.

And I think when you're writing, when the people. When some of the people like your own husband and your mother in law.

Yeah.

Like reading your work or reading my work, if reading anybody's work. You know, I am trying to be very honest. Like I'm more than worried about cringe Sometimes I think, oh gosh, I hope when Jim reads this, he just.That I'm characterizing this correctly.

For sure. That's a great. Yeah, that's. Characterizing is a great word. Did you know to go on substack right away?

I mean I just went on substack because it was so easy to start a newsletter on substack. And it's free. Just, you know, charge you anything unless you are charging your.You know, unless you are charging for paid subscriptions, it doesn't charge. I looked at WordPress, I looked at a few others. I'm like famously impatient. I like to just do things.

Yeah, I love that about you.

Yeah.

Research and something. It was very easy. And so I. And then substack wasn't as much in the zeitgeist then just over four years ago. And then that has been gradual.It's been gradually becoming more and more of a thing. Yeah.

When did you lock into knowing that you wanted to grow an audience on substack? Like, was that a confidence thing? Was that just literally the data?You know, like you're now seeing people click through and you're like, wow, this is real.

Actually, I think it was more this gradual learning to trust my feelings. Because I started out, the only reason I started it was to build an audience to sell my book. That was my entire goal.

Right. I always forget that.

Yeah, yeah. That was the whole reason I was doing it.And while I, for the first two years that I was writing the newsletter, I was writing a novel because I had learned that it's easier to sell a novel to get a novel published than it is to get a memoir published if you're not a famous person.

Okay.

I was writing a novel as well as writing the newsletter because that was my goal, to publish a book. Like, I really, I was pretty single minded about it and the newsletter was just in service of that. And it wasn't really the data, it was that I just.When I was writing the newsletter, I was having a lot of fun and loved it and thought about it all the time. I was always coming up with ideas for it. When I was writing the novel, I was not at all energized and it felt like a chore and it felt like work.And I didn't want to do it and I was forcing myself to do it. And so I kind of was like, I'm going to go with the thing. No one's paying me to do either thing.

Right.

Right.

And no one is, is waiting for me to do either thing. So I'm going to go with the thing I actually like doing. I'm going to go with where the energy is.

Yes.

I'm just going to do that. Which is like so woo woo. Compared to how I started out in my career and how I began planning my career. You know, I will get a law degree.I will work in financial services, try to work for the most famous company in the world. I will try to have the best possible title. I will be competitive, you know, I will be this, I will be that.Like now I'm like, oh, this is what I feel like doing. So this is what I will do.

And interestingly, look how it grew. Like you didn't anticipate that you would have this many.

It's kind of a secret to life that I discovered Late.I've always been a hard working, very motivated, disciplined person, but I lacked the passion to go with it, you know, and if you add passion to your discipline and your hard work and your motivation, like, wow, you can really do a lot.

Yes. And so now you've gotten this great following. You're. You changed it to Happy on Purpose. You left the scribbles. Do you feel more set with it?

You.

You understand what it means to you? You feel like your relationship is much more clean about it. You're not. You're not fighting your insecurities surround it?

No. I would say like.So it was around about the two year point that I changed the title to Happy on Purpose because I felt like some happy scribbles was not representative. You know, it was. It was right around that time when I changed from feeling like I was doing it in service of something else to I was doing it for.It's.

Yes.

Oh, wow. I'm doing a newsletter now. Like.

Yeah.

I am a substack writer. I am going to see where this takes me. You know, it could go in all sorts of different directions.And so I started seeing it as a job in its own right. Changed the name, which felt like it had a much more sort of a professional kind of like it's made it sound more like what it was.

Yeah.

Got clearer in the description about what it was. I give it's ideas and advice. That's what I do. And you're gonna find a list.

Yeah, yeah.

Things that I think are good ideas. Like ideally it's gonna be. You'll take one thing away that will make your life better than, you know, that's kind of the whole goal, I bet.From something that I've learned or something I've learned from someone else. Yeah. And. And then over the last two years, I have really had my head down learning what it takes to create a successful newsletter slash blog.Because every substack is also really a blog. So that. And that has been really fun. It's like basically like creating a media business, a solo operation. Media business. And I love it.You know, every one of my newsletters has lots of images in it. I care about how it looks. I love putting it together. I think about it as sort of a magazine.

Yeah.

I loved magazines growing up. So.

Yeah.

Fun and creative. Yeah. And I mean, I've learned a lot about how to engage readers.

Yeah.

Like how to interpret the stats, how to network with other writers, how to ask for help, where to go for help, how to learn how to do it better. I have loved it. I love learning how to do new things and it's, and it feels also like a world in which there is endless learning.I don't feel like I'm end of how to run a media business, you know.

Right. Do you approach your week with a method of. I'm going to do content development this day. I'm going to start curating my list.I'm going to network on this day. Or is it more of a. You take the energy. You get pulled in certain directions energetically.

Yeah. It's interesting. I, I mean I've been very firm. I always send it out on the same day every week.

I have.

Yeah.

I haven't taken a week off actually this year. I think I'm gonna take next week.

Right.

I'm waiting for you. Yes. I have more calling. Yeah. What I. So I'm very, very consistent and I think that consistency.If you're gonna be consistent, then you kind of do have to build a schedule around it like you thought it.

Yeah.

When you're going to publish on a certain day, other things have had to happen a couple of days before. You know, like you've, in my case, at least I wouldn't just come up with a draft that day and publish it.I usually write the draft a week before some, in some cases.

Yeah.

Months. If it's a personal essay and it's really detailed and personal, has a lot in it and I want to make sure it's really good.I'll go through multiple, multiple drafts. But for a regular weekly newsletter, I'm writing it for a couple of days. I'm editing it, I'm redrafting it. I'm looking around for ideas.

Yeah.

And then I'm putting it together on the final day. It's sort of like I feel like I'm putting it together as like the magazine issue and but now I'm writing a second newsletter as well.So I have even a tighter schedule. And then what I really need to make time for more promotions and social media.

Yeah.

Like I have had one really firm with myself and usually this is during the school year when our schedule is, is cleaner and I have to work. I, I, I try to be very firm with myself about allotting enough time to do outreach promotions.

Yes.

Networking. Because if you don't, I. One big thing I've learned about newsletters is no one is going to find you. You need to make it.

Yes.

You know, you need to put yourself out there. You need to be networking with other people. You need To. I have sent emails to other people and said I wrote this newsletter on this topic.I think you might find it interesting.

And within subscribe people. Yeah, I see. So you can. Yeah, you can get discovered using someone else's or collaborating.

I have introduced myself to get discovered. You know, like, it has been rare. I. I have really gotten discovered without me doing something about.

Yeah, that's really good advice.

Mostly I have done something, you know, I like cozying up to them, writing in their comments or I've like literally sent them an email or, you know, that's one of the biggest things I've learned. I love the idea that you get discovered, but I don't know.

Yeah. You're not waiting for it.

Yeah, I mean, I did. I think I waited for it for the first few years and then I finally was like, oh, I guess that's just.

Yes.

Yeah.

And what. Tell me, tell us about the deciding to do a second one. You've got a niche. Like, what was that process like? Was that an easy decision?

You know, it's interesting. One of the things I've learned, I like, I have learned, as I said, a bunch of things about how to make a successful newsletter.And as I've been learning those things, I've almost like been making kind of like mental list of the things I wish I had done differently at the beginning and starting my substack.And so, you know, I've had a little bit, I think for about 12 months I was having a little bit of a fantasy bubbling up of I wish I could start again. I wish I could start again, but I can't stand it. I've got 16, 000 readers. Like I'm. Yeah. Something I have. What I have.So I decided to start another one. So I can. I can do all of the best practices, all of the things that I've learned over the last four years without and start again with a new one.And I think one of the big things I've learned is if you can find a passionate niche to write or. And help write to help, you know, provide something of use to. That is the. That is a great way to start a profitable media business.You know, like if you can identify an audience that is going to really want this product that you're creating.

Yeah.

And so the new newsletter that I'm writing is about tennis. It's for recreational women's tennis players, you know, who loves to play tennis.

Yeah.

Local club or, you know, or who maybe just started in adulthood or started as kids and yeah. Adults. But that's what it's about. And it's a mix of skill and strategy, tips to be about a tennis player, and fashion, which I really love.

I mean, I fully do all the links of the tennis club.

Yes.

Oh, the links are the best.

Yeah. It's fun. I'm thinking of it as Vogue magazine for tennis play.

Yes. It's so good. Well, your pictures are so awesome in that way, too.

I love playing.

Yeah.

So many great tennis images.

Yeah.

I am having so much fun with it because there are. There's great images, there's great puns. There's so many birthday puns.

There's so many puns. And there's such a culture and, like, there's so much style around it and gossip and, I don't know, intrigue. All the things.

It's fun. It's really. It's a fun one. And I'm a tennis player and I. Yeah, I played as a kid. I came back to it as an adult. I love it.It's been a big part of my life. A lot of my friends play tennis. I love to go on tense trips. I love to go to tennis tournaments, you know, so it's.It keeps me healthy, keeps, you know.

Yeah.

Play with my husband, which is also fun. But it's. It's fun. It's a. It's a nation for a niche, and I have niche, so it feels like a really good bit. So.I'm obsessed with happiness, so I write one about happiness.

Yeah.

And I'm obsessed with tennis, so I write one about tennis.

Yeah. Do you find that your readers guide what list you're going to develop next or. So is the interaction with the readers meaningful to you?You know, that immediate sharing.

Okay, look, I think it's one of the most rewarding, incredible things, and Substack does an excellent job.

Yeah.

Enhancing reader engagement. I think, you know, they have this thing that's like sort of like its own inbuilt Twitter thing, but it's not.It's kind of like a mix of Twitter and Instagram maybe if you mix the two together, where you can discover other people and just chitchat quite. You know, be conversational. And I think substack also in the newsletters, makes it fairly easy for readers to comment, to click comment and to.

Yeah.

To you in real time. And so you write about something and you get feedback immediately.And I think increasingly, as I've done this for longer, I've gotten better at knowing what kind of questions to ask to get readers to respond.

Oh, that's Smart. Yeah. Yeah.

People see me and, and they just want to read the newsletter. They don't want to but like it's very rewarding as a writer and, and, and I always learn something too. It's.I've gotten better at learning how to engage readers and to get people to respond and engage, which is really, really fun. And I'm now much better also at interpreting the stats and data.

Yeah.

On the back end. So it's clear to me, you know, anytime I write about habits, people want to.People want good habits and they want to break bad habits and they want to know how to do it. And I think they want common sense advice. What happens. Not like bro advice like get up at 3am Right.

Right. Cold shower right away.

25:13 Do you know crack your egg on your head and then.

Yeah.

People don't. I mean my audience I don't think wants that advice.

No.

How do you make the most out of life? Because habits are the correct.

Yeah.

Midlife is a big topic and I, I found like I started writing about that accidentally. I am in midlife and that. Yeah. Those are always popular. Personal essays are always really popular when I delve. It's really personal to me.A problem that I've had on some. Something I've struggled with childhood, marriage, parenting. Those people loved. I mean people just love to experience somebody else's experience.

Yeah. And perspective. Like some of the ones that I've read of yours that are 20 years of marriage or what I thought I knew.What's the one about the tight pants that was right.

That my 50th birthday.

Yes. It was around monumental moment for you.So looking back on all these things, I. I always find those so intriguing because you want to see perspective like organized in one place and that's. It's a great way to take it in, you know where you don't have to read, you know, a 12 page essay.It's like oh, this is a meaningful hit of this without the big time consuming experience of it. Which is also great if you have more time but dip your foot.

I love like columns like the well column in the Neo.

Yes. Yes.

Magazines like Real simple but have like for sure. It's like practical advice about. Some of it might be on how to clean your kitchen better and some.

Yeah.

On how to have a. How to talk to a friend who's going through grief or something. You know like.

Yeah.

I am always looking for advice on this sort of thing. You know, I don't think they're too old to be like tell me how to do life better. Like how pointed. I'm always trying to be better.

Yeah.

And I think my readers are too. And that's one of the very fun things about writing a newsletter about the lessons I learned and lessons I learned in giving advice is that I.To learn as I go and for sure my whole job.

Yeah. I think about you so much because I love when you do TV shows and books.

Yeah, I do that every week as well because I love watching TV shows and I love reading.

I was gonna ask you that. Are you a fast reader?

Yeah, I am kind of a foster and secret. There is one. I do not finish a book if I. If it's not grabbing me. Like basically I down. I read everything on Kindle. I download the free sample.If the free sample does not grab me, goodbye. That is okay. I. I get enough from the free sample usually that I'm like, yeah. And I move on real fast.I usually have a couple of books going at the same time. Usually.

Yeah.

A couple of fiction books and maybe something I've read before that I'm going back to as a comfort read. And I am a bit of a fast reader and I tend to skim. I learned how to skim maybe in law school where you have to read so much boring shit.

Yes.

Right. So I. I am quite the skiva. And I will skim over real boring descriptive passages. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I count on you. Like, I really love book recommendations from people who I trust have good judgment. Obviously.But there's so many people out there recommending books. You really have to pick your lane of who you will listen to.

And you know, I actually mean I will say to my credit and I'm giving myself. I don't accept. I get offers of free books all the time because you know, that's how this whole thing works.You know, they send you, you're meant to read it and then you're meant to write. Answer. I just don't do that because I only want to recommend a book.

Yes.

Myself. I just will not do it as a favor for anybody. And if I do, I'll say that I'm doing it as a favor.

Yes.

Rarely do it. I mean if my best friend wrote and published a book, I would do it.

Sure.

I just. Because yeah, I agree. You want good recommendations.

Yeah.

Not to doing book recommendations or TV shows is. I try to just give you a snip.

Yeah.

Your appetite. I try not to give you too much detail because I find some soft reviews give you so much detail that you're like, well, I don't need to read it.

Yes. Yes. Even with. When you do the TV shows. Because our husbands have similar shared backgrounds.And I figure, you know, if Jim and Amelia are watching it, maybe the two of us will like it. So it's so great to go through the list and be like, oh, I'm gonna tag that. Or. Because you'll watch with your daughter.Or your whole family will watch something like. I love that distinction of like, we watched this together, but this one I did alone.So it's a. I've been wondering about how you manage that, but it seems just naturally or that way. So it all looks natural.

It is. And I do. I really. I wasn't allowed to watch very much TV as a kid, like, only one hour a week all the way through high school.So I. I had a lot of TV to catch up on. And movies.

Yeah.

As an adult. And I feel like I'm sort of. I feel like I'm still. Oh, my God. I can watch this much tv.

Yeah. It's part of your job, too, so.

Good.

Yeah. I get tired. I do find. I feel, like, weirdly ashamed of this, but I get up really early to write because it's when my brain's freshest.And I love the morning and I love the quiet. And I started that routine when my kids was still, you know, very active and I. I needed to have time before they got up.I'm pretty brain dead by, like 4pm And I can very happily watch TV from, like, six till nine. Yeah. I think TV and I. And like, maybe that's embarrassing, but, like, I am so brain dead.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I. I don't think that's embarrassing at all. I think that's a lot of us. Yeah. TV's like a whole conversation. Well, I'm in Los Angeles, so that's people.That's what we talk about, is who's making what TV show. And you celebrate it because you. I think so.

Good. I'm so. Yeah. The way they are so funny or so dramatic.

Yeah.

Realistic or. I mean, I am. I mean. Well, I. Having tried to have written a screenplay and now knowing how hard it is.

Yeah.

And just learning how hard it is to create and produce all of it. Anything. I am. Yeah. Really impressed by. Well done. Any kind of creative. Like, I'm just like, wow.

Yeah. On this podcast, I had a guest named Trey Calloway. So if you haven't listened to that one, it's so his. His passion and commitment to.He's a showrunner. And screenwriter.It's so beautiful because he really captures what it takes to be on set and, like, create something that we're all just, like, eating burritos and ordering pizza and sitting on our couch like, it's nothing but, like, what goes into it. And it's not brain surgery. You hear people say that, but it.

Is so important to be able to hear a story and relax and to. And people like. I mean, like, I just think it's so what on earth would we do without entertainment?And I love it when it's good, and I don't love it when people are just casually critical of things. Right now. I try never to be casually critical of anything because even just to get a show on tv.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a huge deal.

Yeah.

So, okay, midlife, you're happier. Tell us. Let's close on this idea of finding meaning.

Now.

I'm wondering if this process of creating the list, like you walking your talk, you know, really embodying all these things that you've thought of, is that your experience of part of what happy on purpose has given you, is it given you this perspective? Has it given you a happiness on purpose that surprised you or you expected it or. Tell me about life. Like, in this moment, I.

What I'm loving about midlife for myself is having gone through my midlife crisis that was created by myself quitting a job on the day that I started it.

Yeah.

And had a lot to do with going back and dealing with my childhood stuff. But finally in a healthy way, it feels like that experience in my.That was in my early 40s really has opened up the rest of my life to be, like I said at the beginning, a little bit return to the little curious, creative, full of kind of verve in life, little girl that I was. And to try new things, to fail at things. There's plenty of. I mean, I failed a lot. I.Since I've started, you know, I've written plenty of things that no one liked and that we've done. And, you know, I've sent emails to people who've never responded, done all sorts of embarrassing, cringy things.

Yeah.

But I don't. I mean, I. I feel like the. The thing that's great about midlife is you sort of over a lot of the cringe, you're just kind of like, whatever.Life is just short. I'm in the second half of it. I have plenty of energy now, but I know that's going to diminish, you know, so.God damn it, I'd better do all this stuff while I can. And to answer your question, the newsletter and the writing and what I'm now thinking about is, like, building a media business has totally given me.I mean, I will say, honestly, I am the hardest boss to have because I'm coming up with ideas for my one employee all day long.

Yeah.

Collect the new list of things to do. Yeah.And, you know, I feel like I kind of don't ever have enough time to, like, write all the things I want to write and get as good as I want to get.

Yes.

You know, work on the craft of it as well as working on the business side of it and this. And I actually. My secret goal page is to go at it full tilt until my kids have kids. Assuming that they're going to have kids.

Yeah.

Once my kids have kids, then I'm gonna just be available for babysitting or emotional support, like, whatever it is they need. But I'm going full tilt until then, because then I think, you know, maybe that'll be another new phase, and I want to not.

Yeah.

Oh, I love it. I love receiving it. I've loved witnessing the journey. And I know people listening to this.I. I told you this before we started, but I have a few people who are really interested in a similar expression, whether it's in substack or some other audience.But it's like, it's such a great way in midlife to have flexibility so that you can be with your family and you can, you know, express yourself creatively in a way that you've never done before. But that feels like remembering you. It's not like a complete new thing.It's like remembering what lights you up in the first place, and you have really lived that. I mean, I've seen that up close. It's really inspiring.

The other thing I would say to your readers or to anyone who's.Who's thinking about it, is that midlife is not too late to do something like this, because you take all of the experience and all of the gifts that you have learned throughout the first half of life, and then you get to, like, not show it off. Exactly. But it's kind of amazing to me. Like, I do think there can be a little bit of a feeling of, oh, I'm too old.I should have done this, and I'm so far behind. Like, I can't now. What's the point? But I only started four years ago. I've built a sizable audience. I'm making money.You know, I've just started a new newsletter. I think that one is going to be. It's already doing great, I think.

Yeah.

That's for. And I think that I'm drawing a lot on life.The life that I have lived and the experience that I've gained in the different disparate jobs that I've had that maybe had nothing to do with each other and didn't really make any sense and I wasn't even liking at the time, but it all adds up and it gives you something to say.

Yeah. And you didn't have to major in it. You didn't have to have a PhD in happiness to talk about happiness. Your life has been the lesson. Yeah.

And you don't even have to be happy all the time. Yeah.

No, you definitely don't. I write about gratitude, and I'm like, life sucks. And I'm like, big P.S. Be grateful.

Oh, gratitude is so hard.

Oh, thank you, Amelia. This is so fun.

Oh, great.

This conversation with Amelia reminded me, as I'm so often reminded by the guests on this podcast, it takes a real level of courage and resolve to get honest about what is true for you. We all know what looks good on paper. We have an unspoken agreement in our culture of what constitutes success.But how that definition of success feels in real life is a different story. It takes a while for us to notice the hints and clues. It takes a while for us to tune in to the wisdom of our emotions.Amelia called herself a slow learner. Well, we're all slow learners because we're not taught to use our feelings as guides.We have to have the lived experience and learn what is true for us. We are taught to think, and like Amelia, we get very good at believing we can think our way out of problems.We must feel our way through challenges and dissatisfaction and trust that our feelings can show us to the path that is most true for us. Amelia's story is a great example of the happiness that can come when we use our emotional lives for insight and direction.So let this episode be an invitation for you to give yourself permission in all the ways that Amelia so bravely gave herself. Permission and more. Permission to trust your feelings and let them guide you.Permission to make peace with your childhood so you can liberate yourself as an adult. Permission to try new things and learn and fail and try again and accomplish and try some more.Permission to say aloud what you want and claim that desire. Permission to face your fears about going for what you want. Permission to follow what energizes you.Permission to have fun as you pursue your interests and gain new skills. Permission to put yourself out there, let people know where you are so you can be discovered.Permission to create, be artistic, share your talents with others. Permission to be lit up like a child and go for whatever it is that makes your heart leap.Permission to drop any story that holds you back, like the story that you're too old or that you're not prepared or educated enough.And finally, permission to embrace that your life has led you to where you are now and you have exactly the experiences you need to contribute in the way that is meaningful to you. It has all added up to something very true and valuable. Thank you, Amelia.What a joy to get that time with you and celebrate your journey to finding fulfillment in midlife.I'm so grateful you gave yourself permission to get happy on purpose and that you harness your discipline and your passion to pursue the creative work you love.I learned so much from your lists and your advice and your recommendations, and I've been so inspired by your motivation to build your business and try new things and your willingness to keep learning and growing.I'm thrilled that I get to continue to share this journey with you alongside thousands of other readers and we get to enjoy the beautiful digital space and community you've created for us. I have a feeling there is so much more to come. To find out more about Amelia and join her substack community, please use the link in the show notes.Okay, that's it for now. I will meet you here again soon.

Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening. I'm so grateful we get to share.

Life in this way.

As always, full show notes are available@pagenolan.com podcast. There you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways and any resources mentioned in our conversation.If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review. You can do that by visiting paige nolan.com Love your reviews, really do help people to discover the show.And if you know someone specifically who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share. I'll meet you there with your friends.Lastly, if you have any questions or comments or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meetmet there@pagenolan.com I would love to hear from you. Thank you to the team that makes this show possible.Podcast production and Marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonnell Cover photography by Innis Casey okay y', all, that's it for now. I'll meet you there again Soon.

Sa.