S2E8: In Her Wildest Dreams: Romance Novelist Annabel Monaghan is Living a Love Story

What I would say to your listeners. And I don't know anything, but here's one thing I know for sure. I am a hundred percent more qualified to do everything in the world than I was 20 years ago.

Yeah.

So I could not have written any of these books 20 years ago. I have like this breadth of experience of like going through the world and raising people and meeting all these people and like solving a lot of problems. It's just made me a little like smarter.

Yeah.

And I really don't think that I would have had any wisdom to tell these kind of stories. So if you're trying to write something and you, you're a little bit older, you're probably just a little better qualified to do it now than you were before. And if you're trying to start a business like multitasking when you're 25 is not as easy as multitasking when you're 55.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan. Welcome to. I'll meet you there. A place where heart centered conversations are everything. Living what matters is the truest thing. And sharing the journey is the best. Hi everyone and welcome back. So today my guest is someone I've been wanting to have on the podcast for a while now.

She.

She's a person who is truly living her wildest dreams and she's doing it in a very real and relatable way that I find inspiring. My guest is Annabelle Monahan. She's the author of two young adult novels and a collection of essays based on a column she wrote that appeared in the Huffington Post entitled Does this Volvo Make My Butt Look Big? And in the last four years, Annabelle has published four best selling romance novels. And in my opinion, she has become a master of the feel good summer love story. I discovered Annabelle in 2022 when she published her first adult fiction novel entitled Nora Goes Off Script. At the time I read that book, I'd fallen away from fiction and I was watching too much TV really and choosing to read a lot of nonfiction for work. And I picked up Nora Goes Off Script on recommendation from a friend and I loved it. It was exactly the kind of story I needed to lift my spirits. Heartwarming and smart, emotionally insightful and funny. Layered, but also relatable and easy to read. All of Annabelle's books are this way. After Nora, Annabel went on to write Same Time Next Summer, then Summer Romance, and this year in the month of May, Annabelle published It's a Love Story. She's in a two book deal right now, so we're Going to get a love story from Annabelle in May of 2026. In May of 2027. Lucky us. Annabelle is having a ball with her success. As you will hear in our conversation today, she didn't give her writing her full attention until age 37 and she published nor goes off script at age 52. And she's just invigorated. And we talk about what she's learning from the joy of it all. We also talk about Annabel's early writing dreams, her early career. She had a short stint in finance after earning her MBA in her family life, which has included getting married, birthing and raising three sons, and choosing not to write for years. And now how she feels about the work of writing a book a year. Also the privilege that it is of sharing her stories with such devoted readers. This conversation is about finding your voice, not just in writing, but in any creative endeavor. It's about the gratification of working hard at something you love to do. And it's about creativity and staying open to let your work reveal itself. Finally, Annabel shares her take on authenticity and she talks about the reason why pursuing something you really want to do later in life is actually the perfect time to go for it. Just like Annabelle's books, this is a feel good conversation. Enjoy this time with Annabelle Monahan. So I'd love to start with growing up in la, because I have children, I have three teenagers who are born and raised in Los Angeles and I was born and raised in New Orleans. So I'm always fascinated by meeting a person who's actually from Los Angeles and grew up in Los Angeles. And also in the context of you being a writer and having such a beautiful talent for setting the scene, you know, and having the setting be a big part of your books, I think I'm interested in the setting of your early life in Los Angeles and how that was for you.

Well, actually not only am I native of Los Angeles, I'm a third generation. So my grandparents grew up in Los Angeles, which is unusual because most people have come from somewhere else. And so yeah, so I grew up there, was at the beach almost every day. I didn't live near the beach, but like we would drive to the beach. That was just part of our routine, was outside a lot. Had kind of the same kind of a childhood than anybody else would have. I'm writing a summer book. Yeah, I definitely draw back to that sensory memory that I have of summers. Like salt on my skin and sand drying in my toes and the sound of the ocean and the summer Music. Like, I can get back to being 16 years old in Los Angeles in like two seconds in my mind.

Did you guys grow up, did you have siblings? And did you grow up going in the ocean, like surfing, that kind of thing?

I'm not good at doing things like that or like literally anything with my body. I'm like, not good at it. So I went in the ocean every single day and like would go under the waves and swim around a little bit. But no, I never surfed.

Yeah.

And I had two older siblings. Yes.

Yes.

None of us surfed.

Yeah. Summer has all of those, those sensory like you, you described that can get you back there so viscerally. You know, even in the south, that honeysuckle, like if I pass by honeysuckle and smell it, it's just immediately like, I can be in Louisiana.

So I. I would love to smell that right now. Yeah, I just. Oh, I wish, I wish this was like smell o vision and I could scratch you and smell a honeysuckle and see what that smells like. And it's fun too when you're like writing romance because that's also sort of sensory. So it's fun to have like hot skin. You know, you can like kind of put somebody inside your body. Memory.

Yeah.

With that kind of summertime memory.

Do you play with that as a writer? Like, will you light a candle that has a scent or will you. Or is it mainly imagination?

I always light a candle and that is basically like my spiritual way of being. Like, could I have some help? Like, I'm a hundred percent sure I'm not doing this on my own because I don't really know how to write a book. That's why I write a Light a candle. I do remember. Just speaking of Los Angeles, you made me think of this. Uh, did you ever go to the restaurant Trader Vic's when it was still open?

Yes, years and years ago. It's. I had the big tropical drinks. It's like, yes. West Wilshire and Santa Monica.

Yes.

Yeah.

Annabel Monaghan 7:08

Yes. And my grandfather used to take us there all the time and we would walk in and they would hand us gardenias.

Oh, yeah.

And that smell, I mean, that is the smell that can take me back to like my childhood in a second. I'll buy anything that smells like gardenias.

I love that. I hope that shows up in one of your books. Gardenias. I can't remember if it has. I don't, I don't have a memory of it. But you know, I read a lot, so sometimes my memory gets a little Melted.

I'll tell you what, Paige. I don't remember either.

Paige Nolan 7:37

Yeah.

Annabel Monaghan 7:37

And I write a lot. Someone will be asking me a question about a particular book, and I'll just say, like, I'm going to need a minute.

Yeah.

Like, I'm going to need a minute to get out of the book I'm writing and get back into two books ago.

Yes.

It's confused. It's confusing.

Oh, absolutely. I remember one of my fears of sharing my writing, which I only started to share writing in a blog form in 2014. So I was almost 40 by the time I, like, said here, I really want to write. Although a lot of people knew I was writing. And I'd often give creative writing as a gift. You know, like, read a poem at a. At a baby shower or write something for my parents or my family members. So the cat was out of the bag, but in a more public way in 2014. And I had this fear that I would change my mind, that I would write something. Especially when you're writing nonfiction, where you're. You have a point of view and you've taken a stance, and that I would change my mind and not remember. And then as I started listening to thought leaders and spiritual teachers and, you know, all the nonfiction writers who I was following talk about it, because then podcasts became popular, and Oprah Winfrey would have writers under the oak trees in Santa Barbara and do her super soul interviews, and she would read something from one of those books, and the writer would say, did I write that was that? And it made me feel so much better that, like, as writers, we're thinking all the time and you don't always.

And also, we're changing all the time.

Yes.

So something that I might have written 20 years ago, I might not even have that perspective anymore, or I might have grown out of even thinking that way anymore, but once it's on the paper, like, there's something about writing something down and having it published and off. Like, even if it's on the Internet, like, it's there forever.

Yes.

So you. So it is sort of terrifying to.

Put it out there. Absolutely. And then to be vulnerable enough to grow up in front of your readers, you know, to say, yeah, I am changing and evolving, and to have that be part of the. The partnership of having readers, I feel like. And I just find you to be so connected and generous with your readers. I know I've. I mentioned that to you, but tell me about finding readership. When Nora goes off, we should just jump to Nora goes off script. And I might jump around and go back to your early career, but when you sit down to write Nora Goes Off Script, I know you were. It was in Covid, so it was unique because you had these stretches of time and you have kids at home, I think. Right.

I did.

So tell us about that process. And then, because Nora Goes Off Script became popular really quickly and you had a following, I feel like, at least as I was one of those readers who followed you after that book pretty quickly, you know. So tell us about that process.

I had written before, so. But I had never written fiction for adults. And when the world shut down in 2020, it was like. You remember how weird that was? It was like the weirdest error. We were breathing, and I didn't know what was going to happen. And I didn't know, you know, if we were going to, like, if we were going to survive. I didn't know. And I don't really like baking banana bread, and I didn't want to watch Netflix, so I just basically sat down and started writing that book. It like a daydream. And I just started writing it. And I didn't write it for anyone to read because I didn't really think it was going to get published. I thought we were all going to die. So I just wrote the book. It was like, you know when they say dance, like nobody's watching, you know, it was just like, write like no one's going to read it. I wrote that book. They wrote it pretty quickly, actually. It was, you know, it was picked up and it was published. And that all happened very quickly. And then it. Then it became. This is what I'm trying to say. When you have something in your head. Right. And you're just typing it, that is between you and your computer. But as soon as you read it, now it's in your head.

Yes.

And you and I have a relationship. Like, you and I have been in that tea house together.

Yeah.

And it's so special. Like, it's just amazing to have readership and have people who are like, now I'm. This was my fourth book, but this book that came out this summer is my fourth book.

Oh, I see.

And I have people that have read all of them, and we have, like, a whole breadth of experience together. Like, it's just. It's very intimate. And when you go on book tour and you meet all the people and they all show up and they have a perspective to share on something that you made up in your mind, it's remarkable.

Yeah. How has it changed you has it changed you as a writer? Has it changed you as a person, as a mom, as a friend?

Well, it's changed to. To have readers.

Yeah. Have that relationship, to have that exchange.

It's kind of humbling, honestly. Like, I don't write. When I write, I don't write for readers. Like, I never think. And this is, like, what I do to keep myself from getting really overwhelmed. Like, if I was like, oh, God, I'm writing this new book. I hope Paige is going to like it. Like, as soon as I think that I am, like, I have no more words, so I just have to write a story for myself.

Yeah.

So it hasn't really changed me as a writer as much. It's like, giving me a lot of humility, actually, as a person, to see how a situation I relate to can be so relatable to so many other people. It's like, it makes me feel very connected.

Yes. We just went to orientation. Cause I have twin girls who are going off to college in a few weeks. And with. I was with my daughter at sdsu, and it's this big state school in San Diego. And I was nervous. She was nervous. And we arrive and everybody looked the same. Every parent looked like me. Every student looked like her. You know, like, you could feel the anxiety. Even parents who. This wasn't their first kid, like, she's my firstborn. So there were parents there that it was their second, third, and fourth kid drop off. So even those parents, though, it was so connecting, I just felt so inspired by the fact that we get into our own little bubbles of anxiety. And I've been worried about this. And we had, like, a anxious 24 hours leading up to the process of picking classes and orienting to the school. And then the second I got there and shared it with all those people, it was like, I can't believe I ever thought I was alone in this. Like, it's such a universal experience.

You know, it's so much like childbirth, because childbirth is like, you're like, what? Yeah. And like, every mom's gone through it. Like, it is. It is so universal. Universal. But, like, you just. You were so unprepared for it.

Yeah.

And I think sending your kids off to college is almost like. When I was sending my first son off to college, it almost felt like it was that last push.

Yeah.

Like it hurt. Yeah, it actually hurt. Yeah, it hurt to send him, and then it was totally fine. But it was like. I think it is very universal. I love that you had that experience.

Yeah. Are all three of the boys out of the house now, or do you still have them in high school?

I still. I have one in college.

Oh, one in college.

This is freshman year in college, and then the other two are grown, and they live in New York City.

Yeah. Did you have any vision for how to handle and balance motherhood with a career when you had your first son, maybe your second son? It was like, I'm just doing motherhood. Like, did you. Did you ever anticipate that kind of tension between how am I going to become a writer and be a mom? Or was it all very organic?

It was very organic. And really, I take no responsibility for it because I did it so poor. Like, I did it so just out of order. Although it all worked out fine. I had been working in investment banking before I had kids, and I hated it. And I was, like, not good at it in any way. And so when I got pregnant with my first son, I was like, I'm out.

Yeah.

And so I stayed at home. I was at home with three kids before I ever went back to writing at all, which is what I had originally wanted to do. I didn't write anything at all until I was 37.

Wow.

So, yeah. And. And having said that, I didn't say, you guys, I'm writing now. I'm going back to work. I did it like, I was having an affair. Like, I am not proud of this.

Well, I was like, that makes it exciting.

That's exactly what an affair is. It's very exciting. And I'm not proud of it. If I did it, which I didn't. I promise I didn't.

Yeah.

But it's like, I would just sneak time, like, while they were at school or after people went to sleep. Like, I didn't make time for myself to write and say, you guys, this is what I'm doing, Which I wish I had done earlier.

Why do you feel like that in hindsight?

I don't know. I just kind of. I think it would have been nice for them.

Yeah.

I think that would have been, like, a nice, like, look, our mom's actually doing something.

I see.

Rather than, like, you know, she's got, like, a little hobby. And isn't that, like, I wish I had taken it more seriously.

Yeah.

And now I'm doing it very much full time, like, seven days a week. And there is no hiding from the fact that, like, I am working all the time.

Yes.

And my kids know that, and they could have handled that, like, 15 years ago would have been fine.

Right.

But instead, I kind of made it hard on myself.

Yes. When you wrote the nonfiction, was that gratifying to you as a writer? You wrote a couple. One or two books before Nora goes off.

So I wrote. So I wrote two YA novels.

Oh, okay.

Annabel Monaghan 16:51 - 16:54: So you were nobody really. Yeah, nobody really read.

Paige Nolan 16:54 - 16:55: Yeah.

And then after that, I wrote a column for 10 years. It was basically like Funny Things about Mom Life. And I published that as a collection of essays. And what was interesting about that is that column was like 35 times more successful than my YA books. Like, that took off and it got picked up in a lot of places. And that was super satisfying because it kind of made me feel like I could develop my grownup voice.

Yes.

And like, get comfortable talking about things that are, like, actually happening to me in my life. And I think that really prepared me for what I'm doing now, which is talking about grown up love and grown up life.

Yeah. You found your voice.

Yeah, I found my voice.

Could you go back to those YA novels and even recognize yourself?

I wonder.

Yeah. If you opened it. I wonder too.

I wonder.

And it doesn't matter. I mean, here we are back. You have evolved. But it is interesting how we do that as artists and as writers with readers. Whether it's 10 people or whether it's 10,000 people, that's part of the process.

I don't go back and read any of my stuff, actually, unless I've. Sometimes when I'm writing a book, I'm like, did I already say this in another book? And then I actually have to go back into old documents and search the words. And then I'm like, oh, no, I didn't already say that.

Yeah, I feel like that all the time. That I've already said something all the time. And I think I have already said it.

Yeah.

And. And even on the podcast, my husband says, yeah, like, it's okay because I have no idea what I've talked about on this podcast. You know, I'm sure I'm bringing up the same stories, but then it's like, okay, but each guest is a different person and, you know.

Right.

You let it all go. So has the process changed since Nora goes off script? So you have the big, big success. Do you immediately get into the second book? And was there a contract and an exposure expectation of more of this? Please, like, immediately?

Yes. After they bought Nora, they had an option for another book, so I started writing another book and they bought that. And that was same time next summer?

Yes.

And then after that, they gave me a contract for two more books. And so this is every year. So a book coming out every June. And then after that I signed a contract for two more books. So I have a book coming out in 2026. In 2027. And so has the process changed? Yes. Because I, I am not, I am not like screwing around going, wonder if I'll write another book. Like, if you're going to write a book a year, you need to have it finished. Like, I just turned in my new book this morning.

Oh, congratulations.

You know what, it's premature for the victory lap. I'll, I'll get it back in a week with like a lot of question marks.

Yeah.

You know, that has to be done really, by the end of August for it to come out in June. I'll finish that and then I'll start writing another book.

Yeah. And is that a pace that you appreciate? Is that, is that how you like to live and work and have your life?

I must.

Yeah.

Because I don't really do a lot of things I don't like doing.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, if I didn't like this, I don't think I would do it. And what I love is, first of all, I love writing.

Paige Nolan 20:06 - 20:07: Yeah.

Annabel Monaghan 20:07 - 20:22: So I love that this is my work that like, oh, I'm going to work and then I get to do like, literally my favorite thing. So that's really fun. And I do like having a deadline because without one I could really flounder.

Yeah.

I think that I would be happier if we lived in a 14 month year. Like, I would be more relaxed writing a book a year if it was a 14 month year.

But then you'd want it to be 16 months because you'd lock into the 14 and you'd be like, if only I had those other two months.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, I don't play tennis.

You know what I mean?

don't like, I. There's not something else. Like, I like to hang out with my husband and my friends in the evening. There's something else I want to be doing at this point in my life. And I started late, so I'm just, I'm really happy to have the opportunity to do it.

Yeah. Has it exceeded your expectations to have this kind of career and, and the readers who are tracking these characters with you. Is it a surprise to you?

Oh, it's like a shock. I mean, this was my, you know, like, you know, little kids want to grow up and play in the NBA. Like, at least my little kids did.

Oh, yeah.

This is what I. This is What I wanted to do my whole life, like, this was my wildest dream. So. Yeah. To have this happen to me, you know, late in life, you know, have. Have it all be so well received and to meet all the people that I've met, it's been pretty amazing.

Yeah. Can you point to anything in your early life that inspired you? Whether that was a book or a English teacher, or do you think you were one of those kids that was just born attuned to writing and storytelling? And also, did you keep a journal? I'm always interested if writers keep a journal.

Okay.

So that's a lot of questions at once.

I don't keep a journal because I basically just write all the day. Like, that's just extra writing. I picked up the Artist's Way recently. And you're supposed to do this thing in the morning.

The morning pages.

Yeah. All right. Who has time for that? No, I'm just going to get to work. But no, I always kept a journal when I was growing up. And it's funny, because I sold my house last year and had to go. Go through, like, you can't even imagine, like, how much crap. And I came across all the journals, and I got so overwhelmed by, like, how crazy I was when I was 13. I'm like, I don't even know if I kept them or what I did with them, but I did journal a ton when I was a kid. I liked to make up stories. And I did do a lot of writing when I was growing up. I remember when I was maybe 14, 15, heartburn came out.

Yeah.

And Nora Ephron. It was her first novel, and my mom immediately bought it, and I immediately read it. And I remember being like. Like, kind of shocked by the way she wrote.

Yeah.

And it was, like, not how I would been taught to write in Catholic school.

Yeah.

She, like, broke every rule of, like, sentence structure and story. Like, she'd go off on these tangents. I don't even know what was happening to me while I was reading that, but it, like, opened a door for me. Like. Yeah, you don't have to write Tolstoy.

Right.

There are a lot of different ways to use your voice.

Yeah.

Annabel Monaghan 23:14-

And that. I just. I always remember that I also had great. A great English teacher in high school who. I don't know if she taught me anything about writing, but she saw something in me. And, you know, when you're a kid and somebody sees something in you, you feel it.

Oh, yeah.

And it's so important you do that for kids. Like, when we See something we should be like. I see something in you.

Yes. Did you do that with your boys? Do you feel like each one of them is different and unique in their. In their talent or skills?

Yeah, for sure they are. I hope I told them now. I'm gonna have to call them after we get off. I hope I.

Did I validate your dreams? Did I affirm your wildest dreams?

Just real quick. Real quick. Just quick question. Am I the worst or not? But they are all really different. Um. And so, yeah, so I hope I did.

My husband is one of three boys, and I. My family is so many girls. I have one older sister, but to enter his family. Oh, this is kind of like Dan's family. And it's a love story.

Yeah. Oh, that's good.

I'm gonna ask you about that. But to enter my husband's family was like. I couldn't even believe it. Like, three boys is just its own thing. They're each so new, unique in exactly who they are. But it's very masculine, like, high energy. Like, totally different kind of household than I grew up in with girls.

Same, same. I grew up in basically a house of women, and I just. When I. My husband's one of three boys, too, and it sort of freaked me out when I met them. But then I had three boys, and it's just like. It's unbelievable how you can get used to. Like, you're making dinner and somebody throws a basketball through the room and it almost hits you, and then it goes. And it breaks a window, and you're like. You just call the guy, like.

Yes.

You get used to it. It's like, this is what it is. It's crazy.

Yes, it's crazy.

Annabel Monaghan 25:05 -

And the food. It's just the level they eat.

I know.

It's a lot.

It's a lot.

It was great.

I love the way you create family. I love the way you show us family. And I really love how you draw older characters. Even with Ali's mom, who's the book before this book, Right.

I guess Summer Romance.

Summer romance, okay. And Ally's mom. So Allie's in Summer romance. For those of you who are listening, who haven't read it.

And her mom's dead.

Yes. Her mom has passed, but even that relationship. I was so interested in the mom character there. The book this summer, it's called It's a Love Story. We'll link it in the show notes. This is Dan and Jane's story. Dan's whole family is amazing. And you vividly paint it like, I Felt like I was at the table with Dan's family. And then I loved the scene with Jane's mom. I hate when podcasts give too much away about the book. So this is a broad question about more your process and creating these characters of different ages, especially the parental characters. Were you inspired by your own parents, by your friend's parents? Do you just like that family dynamic?

You know, creating, getting emotional, Dan's family?

Yeah. And just like you do that in all your books to some extent, I feel like there's relationship of that.

Yeah. I mean, you know, you're never going to have as, like, beautiful or painful of a relationship with anybody you meet when you're 40 years old as you are going to have with the people in your family who you grew up with, who are your relatives. Like, there's just so much history and so many opportunities to, like, build each other up and hurt each other. It's such a perfect drama for. For fiction. I love a family, and I love. I love getting to know my heroine by seeing her in her family, whether she's a mother or whether she has parents or both. In Dan's family in particular, I feel like I had been watching this family for, like, 10 years, just in my regular life. They're not like my family. But, like, you know, you walk into that big, loud family.

Yes.

Like, lots of guys, and they all, like, start out insulting each other, but it's funny, and it's close.

It's funny, and it's so intimate. And you're like, how is this happening?

Right, right. And then there's the other kind of family where you're like, oh, hello.

Yeah.

And then there's the thing we don't talk about because we never talk about that. So I just. I've been thinking about this family for a long time, I think, in the back of my mind. And when I met Dan, I was like, ooh, he gets that family.

Yeah.

And I just loved, like, all the scenes in the book where I wrote his family. I just wrote those scenes one time and one time only. Like, they just came out. Like, it was almost like they'd been bubbling forever, but just the way they're. Like, no one's afraid of anything at that dinner table, because it's all been said. It's all been said a hundred times. It's all good. We know where we are. We know who we are. Kind of relaxing.

When did you. And where did you.

Or.

And how did you meet Dan? Like, do we meet. Do you have a way that you meet Certain characters that stick with you, and maybe you're ready to bring them to life, or you put them in a notebook and say, that'll be for the next book. No.

So Jane just met this guy, and his name was Dan, and I don't know why his name was Dan, and he was crossing the street, and I didn't know anything about him. And they have this really random conversation about a billboard. And then I write 150 more pages of the book, and then at the end of the book, I'm like, oh, I think I know who they are. And then I start over again. So I don't really ever know. I didn't know who Jane was. I knew she was a teen star. I knew that she was a little bit unself aware. I didn't know how unself aware she was going to be until I finished the book. It happens while I'm writing. So I never have an idea for a character before I start writing, which is not a totally efficient way to write a book.

It's your way.

Do not recommend. Yeah, it's the only way I know how to do it. It drives my editor bananas.

Are you collecting little bits of inspiration from your real life? Community, friends, strangers? Or do you let it arise?

Only. Only in my mind. Like, I. I don't. I don't write stuff down.

Yeah.

But sometimes I'll write something and I'll think, ooh, that might have happened. And then I erase it. Like, I'm not going to write anybody else's story, but everything I write comes from, like, something I felt.

Yeah.

You know, something I witnessed people feeling like I don't have a daughter, but in summer romance. I wrote a lot about mothers and daughters.

Yeah.

Because I was a daughter, and I see people around me parenting their daughters. I have a lot of thoughts about our generation of parents and, like, how it's maybe all a little bit too much.

Yeah. I have those same thoughts, Annabelle.

Annabel Monaghan 29:55 -

That's weird.

Including about myself, where I'm like, oh, right.

Honestly, my. I think about this all the time.

Yeah.

Annabel Monaghan 30:03 -

Like, especially with adult children. Like, what is the right amount to even call?

I totally.

So then I end up never calling, and then they call me and I'm like, oh, hey. Because I'm like a middle schooler trying to be cool or something. But, like, I don't know how much to be involved.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we're all in that same boat because there's never been this level of contact when they text you in the middle of the day. With any emotion, whether it's apathy, whether it's anxious emotion, whether it's joy, it's like it pops up in your handheld device, and then there you are with that emotion. It's so much exchange. Whereas I felt like I saw my parents here and there in the 80s. You know, it's like you're running through the house. No big deal. They were into their own life, so it's totally different.

And we had to sit with stuff for longer.

Oh, for sure.

So, like, if you had a big crisis while you were at college.

Yeah.

You. You had that crisis for a while until you got access to the hallway phone on Sunday night.

Right, right. Like, you didn't.

You didn't immediately, like, ask for someone to step in and engage with your problem.

Yes.

Which is, you know, probably, like, very hard for our kids.

Yeah.

Because they're not. They're not like, learning those skills.

Right. How was your mom? What was your mom like? And. And what was it like growing up with your mom? What is her name?

Joanie.

Joanie. Okay, tell us about Joanie.

Joanie was amazing. She grew up in Los Angeles, and she. My parents divorced when I was five, so she was a single mom. She was just the most fun person. She wanted to have fun. She wanted to make everything fun. She was very smart. She was amazing.

Did she like to read books?

She was a huge reader.

She was. What kind of books did she like to read?

You name it, she read everything. Yeah, everything. Everything. And the rule in our house was we weren't really allowed to watch tv, which was annoying. But we could read anything that we could read. So I was, like 10 years old reading, like, Sydney Sheldon.

Yes.

Danielle Steele. And I was like, I don't really understand what they're doing.

Yes.

Why? What? But it was all. It was very fun.

Danielle Steele. Oh, the paperbacks. My mom just had all of Danielle Steele lined up in the closet. And I would just go and get my hands on those. And how about Lady Chatterley's Lover? I remember going to the woods.

Yeah. That got steamy. I don't think I've ever read it.

Oh, you should read it. I mean, now that we're in the time that we're in, you have to read it in the context of that. I just read it early. Cause I was like, oh, I've heard about this book, and I can't even remember how old I was.

You're flipping to get to the good parts.

Yeah. Where it's like, oh, this is like real romance and sexual energy. And all that stuff that isn't in the other books that you're reading, you know?

Yeah.

Do you have a memory of an early, early book, like when you were early childhood of liking like a Charlotte's Web or a Stuart Little? Did you have an early connection to books?

I remember really loving Anne of Green Gables, Yes.

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah.

A fly went by.

Yeah.

Did you like that book? I love that book.

When I was really young, one of my first book memories is where all the dogs get on motorcycles. I'm drawing a blank.

Oh, go, go dog.

Yes.

Annabel Monaghan 33:28 -

And they have a dog party.

That book so much. And I remembered those.

Annabel Monaghan 33:32 -

Do you like my hat? Yes, I do like your hat.

: And the dog moon bathing. They're all in the big bed. But it's really early, so it's. It's interesting how you can find that, like in your body. To your point earlier about summer, it's an in my body memory that's visceral. Even though I'm looking at pages and in the book, I have memories of my dad being with me, asking to turn the pa. I couldn't wait to see the dog with the moonlight. It's very cool.

I love that. I love that so much.

Yeah. So what were books like as you got older? College. You were an English major?

I was an English major. So, you know, I read a lot of hard things in college.

Did you relate to that kind of writing and criticism? Like that kind of critical writing?

Yeah. I mean, I liked reading and then taking it apart, and I liked all of those things, but I think that those were the books that made me feel like I could never be a writer.

Yes, same.

I read a lot of Margaret Atwood growing up, like, everything she's ever written at least once. And she's probably my favorite writer, but she's the one where I was like, so I guess I can't be a writer. Yeah, I was like, I can't do that. What she does is. It's not available to me. It has been fun to figure out my own kind of writing.

Yes. You seem so at peace with it, like you're in a good relationship with it. Because I think there's freedom in that, in finding where you are. And I'm married to a musician, so I've watched Boyd, my husband, kind of go through that with music too. You know, just finding the type of sound and song and music that he can create and being at peace with it. And I think I've gotten better at that. But I'm behind him. Like, I'm inspired by people like Ewan Boyd who are like, yeah. And then it's really fun to be you. Like, to have your voice instead of thinking that it could be this other thing.

I really love that thought. I love the ease of it.

Yeah.

And I think that whatever we're trying to do, if we show up as ourselves to do it, people relate to it more.

Yes.

Like, if I'm. Here's. Here's a perfect example.

Yeah.

If I have something that I need to post on Instagram and I go into a Word document and write some smart thing.

Yeah.

And then copy it into Instagram, and I'm like, here's my smart thing about this thing. No one cares.

Yeah.

If I go onto Instagram and I just with my thumbs, type something like I would type to my sister, Everybody sees it.

Yes.

It's like, if you show up as yourself, people are like, oh, I recognize that as a person.

Yeah.

Not as something false. We need to see authentic things.

Yes. Yeah.

People talking in their. Speaking in their own voices.

Yeah. And we're so overwhelmed with all the expert content. I think the authentic voice is the future, because it's like, you can chat GPT, anything. You can. You can go take Harvard classes online. You can access any kind of expert, heady, you know, knowledge. Now that. I think it's just the relatability that people are craving and feeling good. I accredit. Nora goes off script to just feeling good. And I think that's one of the things that your books do. And also the genre. Like, I find that this genre of romance and the way you guys show up for each other, there's a lot of crossover. I find a lot of goodwill between writers in that genre and the way people show up for it, and that feels newer to me. So I wanted to ask you about that. Like, that feels like in the last five or six years to me, where there's bookstores popping up that are only for romance books, and there's just a. A larger community around it. Do you find that in entering that genre?

That's amazing. And romance really blew up, I think, around Covid.

Yeah.

People wanted to feel better. They, you know, for a lot of reasons, they were looking for a story that was going to have a guaranteed happy ending. But I think there's also something about romance novels where, you know, a lot of learning goes on. Like, a lot of personal development happens when you fall in love. And even if you get your heart broken, you learn something about yourself. So it's kind of like a personal journey to go on that you know is going to end well. But about the community, it's so funny. I have never in my life had a job like this where everybody's cheering for everyone. Truly, it is just.

It's amazing. It's amazing and you can feel it. And I'm not like a major social media person, but I love following you on social media. I love the way you show up so authentically. So there's. There are people I consistently follow who are like that. But you can feel it in. In the way that this community shows up. You can feel it online when you go to a book signing. You can feel it with the people there. It's beautiful.

Oh my gosh. At a book signing. Imagine walking into a room, there are 200 people there and everybody there wants a happy ending.

Yeah.

So it's like everybody's. Nobody walks in. Like, like everybody is just like looking for the positive thing.

Yeah.

So romance readers are a very particular kind of lovely person.

Yes.

And there are all these new romance only bookstores and they feel like safe havens for people to go. And they're, they're. A lot of them are organized by like, like different kinds of romance and like, like it's all so inclusive.

Yes.

It's amazing.

Yeah. It's a good time to be a part of it and I'm so glad you're a part of it. It's very cool.

Yeah. I feel so lucky.

I want to ask you about that personal development arc because I've thought about this with your books and also to the point of it's a hallmark of the genre. There is always that moment where the character is having the self awareness or having the turnaround. Do you have to trial and error that moment as a writer? Because sometimes it feels like I'll just do It's a Love Story. Since this is the most recent and I hope people will read it, you know, Jane's revelation and how she really gets that moment with herself of how she could handle the relationship better. Let's just leave it nice and broad like that. Do you know? Or do you have to throw spaghetti at the wall around that? Because it feels very specific to me that that moment within someone's personal development. And as a person who works with personal development, it feels very true. That's how people are. It's like it can seem very obvious and then the stakes get higher and higher and it's like it's not obvious. And then all of a sudden they have to face it.

Yeah. And that's ideally how it happens, but I never know. I never go in knowing. So I do this thing where I write a book a couple of times where I'm just trying to get to know my characters.

Okay.

I wrote. It's a love story, like, 14 times. I mean, I wrote it a lot of times, but there's a moment where I figure out what her wound is.

Okay. That makes the wound. Feel it. Yes.

I can feel her wound. And then I start moving her through the story, the way we all kind of move around, following our wound around.

Yes.

You know, I mean, I know I do, so. And then at the end, I know that there's something that she needs that to learn that I can give her. And hopefully, after writing the book for 14 times, I know what that is in that moment. And then it will resonate.

Yeah.

And whether it's like a revelation or a tirade or some decision she has to make. And sometimes it can make sense in my brain, but it doesn't feel right.

Yes.

Like, I have to. I have to be kind of choked up before I know that it worked for sure.

I always think that's a good barometer if you're bored by your own writing or if you're. You know, if you're triggered by your own writing, you're like, someone's gonna have the same experience.

It is. I think about that all the time.

Yeah.

The other day, my. My husband walked out in the morning, and I was like, hello? He was like, what's going on? I'm like, he just. I'm so mad, like. And I was. I was just at the part of the book where, like, the bad thing was happening, and in my body, I was so angry. I was like, okay, yeah, this is gonna be a good breakup.

Yeah. Yeah, we can't wait to read it next summer. How do you feel about the 14 times you're writing It's a love story? So now I'm back on the. You and Boyd have this thing about you where you're okay with your own voice when I have to rewrite something or when I can't figure out what I'm really trying to say or the conclusion, because most of my writing will end in some sort of inspirational message, you know, that's because it's nonfiction, and it's a real story in life, but it's an applied lesson that can be universal. That turnaround for me, when it's not working gets really frustrating. And Boyd handles me great. He's like, you know what? Just keep going. Or go for a walk and I'll do dinner. You know, he can spot it a mile away, I think, because he has his own creative process. So when you spot it, you got it. You know, he has a lot of empathy for that moment.

But I love him.

I love him, too. He was my first guest on this podcast because I wanted to talk to him about creativity. So episode one, season one. Yes. It's. It was very. Wow. I don't know. I just get inspired by people's courage and discipline in that moment. And writing. It's a love story 14 times. How do you stick with that? How do you approach it? Are you. Are you fighting with it? Are you wrestling with it? Or are you just like, hey, this is part of the deal. I'm waking up. I'm writing from nine to noon, or whatever your schedule is that you keep.

The one piece that I have going for me is, I have a great editor.

Oh, I want to hear about that.

My. My editor at Putnam is. She's an actual genius. You could fight me on this. Like, she is a genius. So she'll read my book. Like, the book that I'm writing right now. I thought it was done, like, three drafts ago.

Yeah.

And I really liked it. I was like, I like this book. And she comes in and she's like, I like it too. However. And then she brings up, like, 10 issues, and I'm like, oh. And she's always right. Like, nine times out of ten, she's right. So I have that to work with. It's not just me, like, looking at my thing, saying, why isn't it working? And banging my head against a wall. I have somebody who's like, here's why your book's not working.

Yeah, I love that.

The collaboration.

Yeah.

Yes. And so then I have to figure out how to fix it, but at least I know what the problem is.

Yes. Yes.

So that's the beauty of working with an editor.

What would you say? Because I know some of my listeners have this kind of dream deferred, like you did, like, you had a dream when you were younger to write. You do your career as well as you know how to do it. Each door kind of opened, and you followed it. And you did motherhood along the way, and then returning. I mean, now you had the circumstance of COVID so who knows if you would have actually returned if Covid hadn't have happened. But what would you say to someone who kind of has either writing? Because I know some people listening are women who would like to write later. In their life or starting that business or going to become an interior designer or doing the thing. What would you say to that person in terms of the facing the self doubt and having the courage to do it or what's on the other side? Which to me, as I'm listening to you, it feels so satisfying that you have this experience, whether it was wildly popular or not, just that you've had this beautiful opportunity to design a life that feels really good to you.

Yeah, it does feel really good. And it has felt really good to write these books. Whether or not they were well received. It just felt really good to do it. What I would say to your listeners and I don't know anything, but here's one thing I know for sure. I am 100% more qualified to do everything in the world than I was 20 years ago.

Yeah.

So I could not have written any of these books 20 years ago. I have like this breadth of experience of like, going through the world and raising people and meeting all these people and like solving a lot of problems. It's just made me a little, like, smarter.

Yeah.

And I really don't think that I would have had any wisdom to tell these kind of stories. So if you're trying to write something and. And you're a little bit older, you're probably just a little better qualified to do it now than you were before. And if you're trying to start a business like multitasking when you're 25 is not as easy as multitasking when you're 55, because you've been doing it for a long time.

Yeah.

I. I just think.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it's such a funny story that we tell about aging and like, this decline. I just think it's like, like we've really learned a lot of stuff along the way.

Yeah.

So we're maybe better prepared now than we were.

Yes. And all of the skills transfer, I think that's one of the things that we forget. Like all the skills that you use in your personal life, building families and being someone's daughter, you know, and being someone's friend, it all transfers to business and it all transfers to creative expression.

I totally agree.

I'm so excited that we got to connect. So still in the month of August, because there's. I just love sitting in the sun and reading one of your books and feeling good. It goes.

Thank you.

You can read these books, by the way, y', all, all year round. But I do love the fact that when you're in the summer, there's A different space. There's a different head space. Yep.

I know. And they look like summer. Yeah, they look like the big covers do. Like, it just wouldn't feel as right to read them in December as it does right now.

It feels like that to me, for sure. So tell us. I don't know if you can tell us anything about the actual book that you're reading. You can if you want to. Or just something that is compelling right now in this stage of your life. It could be about family. It could be about your career at this moment. It could be something coming off of this big, amazing book tour that you did, meeting all these readers from It's a Love Story, what's Up in this Moment.

The book that I turned in this morning that's coming out next summer, it turns out after writing it many times, I think it is about not holding on to other people's stuff. Like, other people do things, and then you carry them around forever because you're that kind of a person and, like, holding people accountable for their own actions rather than, like, you suffering the consequence of other people's actions. That's the thing I'm thinking about a lot. That's the thing I've been writing about for, like, the last month, trying to nail the fine points of this story. But I'm starting to think about it in my own life, too. Like, just going forward. And this does happen. Sometimes I find that the book I just wrote is the thing that I need to know about.

Yes, I was just about to ask you that. It seems like that's exactly what you're describing. It's like, it's. The idea is compelling, but then all of a sudden, life imitates art.

Yeah. Well. And it's always like, the thing that seeps in is the thing I'm worried about. Or the thing. Like when I wrote Summer Romance about a professional organizer and her house was such a mess. It was right before I was gonna sell my house, and I had to go through my house that I'd lived in for 20 years and just clear out all that stuff. And every day I'd be like, didn't I just write a book about this? I cannot believe that I've set myself up for this task right after I wrote that book.

It goes to show you how much is going on subconsciously.

t's amazing.

It's amazing. It's our whole life. I feel like almost our whole life is subconscious, which is why I think. And I know people know this about me. If you listen to this Podcast or work with me. I just really believe in writing as a tool to reveal, you know, even the smallest thing in a journal or if you can do some creative writing because it's so accessible. It's just paper and writing utensil. That's it. You don't even have to go to, like a deep dive psychoanalytic clinical psych appointment.

Yeah. You know, you just know and just the process of.

Yeah.

And I think especially by hand, you know, when I'm really trying to figure something out, I like to write by hand. It just comes out and then you write it and you're like, oh, yes.

Yeah, that was my breakthrough. That was your breakthrough? Yeah. Do you think we'll see Nora goes off script on the big screen?

Well, it's been optioned, so, yeah.

I could see it as a movie when I was reading it.

Yeah, that would be fun. There's 10,000 things that can go wrong between a book being optioned and it actually becoming a movie. But we'll see. It would be really fun to see.

Oh, it'd be so fun. Oh, I'm so delighted to get this time with you, Annabelle. Thank you.

Me too. Me too. I just love talking to you, Paige. Thank you for having me.

There's so many reasons I love reading. I could go on and on about what I've learned from books and how books have changed my life, but what Annabelle's books have given me and what the romance genre of today gives all of us is permission to feel good. It's through these feel good love stories that I especially like to read in the summer that I let myself relax. It's so nice to know that there is going to be a happy ending. It's all going to get sorted out and love is going to win every time. Not everybody who writes feel good stories feels good in the story of their life and Annabelle does. I think there's a way for each of us to feel good in our life story as we accept it and remember, as Annabelle says, to show up as ourselves and trust that our authentic voice is actually what sets us free. And it's exactly that voice that the world needs now. I use the phrase, live what matters throughout the work I do, and it's a call to make choices and build a life around what is most important to you. After this conversation, I think there's another calling we can answer in our lives and that is to enjoy what matters. Annabel showed me that. And from this episode I have yet another mantra I'm adding to the ways I keep myself steady these days, and it is you are qualified. Your life has prepared you for this moment. You are qualified. Your life has prepared you for this moment. I've already used it in two different scenarios when I was feeling a little insecure professionally, and I used it in a personal moment yesterday when I had to make a decision that impacted one of my kids and I wasn't sure which option to take. I just slowed it all down and I reminded myself, you are qualified. Your life has prepared you for this moment. And you know, tbd, we're not sure the outcome there, but the mantra helped me move through the moment and that's what it's all about. So thank you, Annabelle. Thank you for reminding us how qualified we are. I hope y' all will read It's a Love Story and I hope you'll check out all of Annabelle's books and follow her on social media. She's the biggest supporter of writers and readers and she keeps it so real. Annabelle, I appreciate your time so much and one of the great joys of my summer life in Los Angeles is sitting poolside with one of your books in my hand. Thank you for sharing your voice and giving us love stories in a world that could use more love. You can find the links to learn more about Annabelle in the show notes and buy her books wherever books are sold. Okay y', all, that's it for now. I will meet you here again soon. Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening. I'm so grateful we get to share life in this way. As always, full show notes are available@paigenolan.com podcast. There you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways, and any resources mentioned in our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review. You can do that by visiting paigenolan.com your reviews really do help people to discover the show and if you know someone specifically who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share. I'll meet you there with your friends. Lastly, if you have any questions or comments, or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meetme thereagenolan.com I would love to hear from you. Thank you to the team that makes sense this show possible Podcast Production and Marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonnell Cover photography by Innis Casey. Okay, y', all, that's it for now. I'll meet you there. Again, Sam.