S2E7: Unconventional Healing: Dana Childs on Spiritual Growth, Energy Healing, and Plant Medicine

And I'll tell you, if you have at least one person who can hold a grounded spiritual space. And that for me, luckily, was my dad. And so I was really depressed. Everything was falling apart. And I sat down and I made a list of 10 things I could do. Like, I can enclose my garage and create a yoga studio, be a yoga teacher, I could go to massage school, I could write all these different things. And the last thing I put on the list out of sheer desperation was quit my job, sell everything, and travel the world. Ridiculous, right? I was early 30s, I thought, that is insanity. And I was talking to my dad about it and I read him the list and he just said, your eyes light. Light up. When you said option, your eyes lit up. And I laughed. And I was like, dad, this is crazy. Like, I have the job, the dog that you know, all the things people want, all these things are. And he was, he just listened and he goes, how, how happy are you? And I just started crying and I said, I'm so unhappy. And he said, baby, these are things. There are things. Sell the things, travel the world. If you come back and you want the things, buy them back, get a job, buy them back. They don't matter.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan. Welcome to I'll meet you there. A place where heart centered conversations are everything. Living what matters is the truest thing and sharing the journey is the best. Hi everyone and welcome back. Today I have an episode I'm especially excited to share with y' all because my guest is an expert in some unconventional healing modalities and I love a good conversation about something unconventional. We've talked about healing on this podcast in the past and in fact, the way I see it, every single guest who joins us and shares about his or her journey to living what matters reflects some aspect of healing in various ways. Our guests have moved from confusion to clarity, pain to purpose, stress to peace, grief to growth, autopilot to authenticity, me to us, distraction to presence, self preservation to service. And these shifts come by way of some form of awareness or perspective or some leap of faith that transforms and empowers a person to live more aligned to what matters most. Today's episode is unique because my guest, Dana Childs, speaks specifically to spiritual healing. Her journey started with her own spiritual seeking and led her to become a healer, educator and guide to many seeking their own soulful truths. Dana Childs is an intuitive energy healer, author, speaker and educator. While Dana has plenty of education, she holds degrees in English and psychology. She earned her master's in leadership, and she holds a doctorate of holistic medicine from the Indian Board of Alternative Medicines. Her work is more about harnessing wisdom and applying ancient methods of healing through energy work, plant medicine, and psychedelics. That's what we talk about in this episode. For those of you who need the basic definition of energy work, this is how I think about it. Intuitive energy healing is based on the fact that human beings are made up of energy, and healers who are gifted and practiced with this skill to work with energy can intuitively feel where a person's energetic field is out of balance and they can offer support. Energy work is considered unconventional because it relies on the practitioner's intuition, and then the practitioner needs to apply energy healing techniques. And it's just different from going to a doctor. It's different from being diagnosed based on presenting symptoms, and it's different from going to a therapist and talking about a challenging situation in your life. But I can tell you from experience, energy healing work is powerful. It's just as real as therapy or Western medicine treatments. And in some cases, it's exactly what people need to feel better and break through to get to the root of trauma or dissatisfaction. Today, Dana talks about spiritual awakening, intuition, trusting your higher self, and letting what she calls the pulls guide you. Dana and I also talk about some relationship wisdom that had come up in a session I had with her before we recorded this episode, and it's the type of relationship insight that's relevant and helpful to all of us. And then we get into Dana's work with psychedelics and mushrooms and why this healing modality is gaining such popularity at this moment in time, and what we both believe is the key to getting the most out of plant medicine, mdma, or any other route you may pursue along those lines. Okay, y', all, thanks for sticking with me through this longer intro. This episode was really interesting to me, and I think it will be for you, too. Enjoy my conversation with Dana Childs. I would love to start with how one moves from banking to packing up one's car and deciding to move to India. Now, the answer to that question may come earlier, you know, in your life than the moment that you're packing the car to leave the country. So you can certainly pick it up wherever you want to pick it up. But I'm really curious about how do you trust your intuition that that's the next move?

Yeah, it's a big move, right? I mean, corporate finance. I would say the easiest way to kind of make that biggest shift is to have a full on meltdown.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Good answer.

Yes, but really, I mean, there is this, this sort of idea in the spiritual community of like a spirit, spiritual awakening.

Yeah.

Looks and feels like a mental breakdown or a nervous breakdown. They're very, very similar. It's hard to distinguish them, actually.

Yeah.

And that was what was happening. I knew I was unhappy. And I think too, there are times in our lives where everything kind of conspires to happen. Right. It's, it's all sort of spinning and there are these crossroads and these pivot points and we get to choose what are we going to do, how are we going to shift. And everything starts slowly chipping away. Or maybe it's fast, but it's like everything kind of falls away. Everything shifts and changes and then you're sitting in the place of how do I want to feel? Is it the same or not? So banking, my life was a shambles. Outwardly successful, held it together, did not do emotions, did business, you know, that kind of thing. Got into the yoga world to deal with all of the uprising of emotions that was happening in that male dominated world that was really tricky to navigate. And my grandfather died, my dog died, my marriage ended, everything started falling away. And I was really unhappy, just deeply unhappy, sad. I took a trip to China with a friend of mine, just to visit, just to see. And we were learning about silkworms and all of these different things. And my mind opened. And so in these two weeks, I felt so light and bright. And I went back to the bank and I just dimmed again. You know, you just feel like you're covered in something. And I thought, I just need to stop. I just need to go away. And I'll tell you, if you have at least one person who can hold a grounded spiritual space, not a protective friendship place, right, But a grounded spiritual place. And that for me, luckily, was my dad. And so I was really depressed. Everything was falling apart. And I sat down and I made a list of 10 things I could do. Like I can enclose my garage and create a yoga studio, be a yoga teacher. I could go to massage school. I could. All these different things. And the last thing I put on the list out of sheer desperation was quit my job, sell everything and travel the world. Yeah, it's ridiculous, right? I was early 30s, I thought, that is insanity. And I was talking to my dad about it and I read him the list and he just said, your eyes light up. When you said option, your eyes lit up and I laughed. And I was like, dad, this is Crazy. Like, I have the job, the dog that, you know that all the things people want all these things. And he was. He just listened and he goes, how happy are you? And I just started crying and I said, I'm so unhappy. And he said, baby, these are things. There are things. Solve the things, travel the world. If you come back and you want the things, buy them back, get a job, buy them back. They don't matter. I mean, my mom was so upset. She was like, travel world with him. You know, she had her own reactions. Yeah, it was the most beautiful space and permission. And I literally went home, put my house on the market. It was down the downturn, right? It was 2008, 2009. And the realtor was like, it's going to take 180 days minimum to move your house. And I said, no, it's not. And he goes, yes, it is. And I said, well, I'm ready to go. So six days a bidding. I mean, it was fast and insanely fast. I just was done. And I thought, you know, I'll just go and if it doesn't work, I'll come back. I'll try something different. But it was a have to, like, in the soul, I have to do something different because the other option was falling into deep, dark depression that would tend to be suicidal feeling almost. And I just was unwilling to live that life.

Yeah, yeah. Before I get into where that brought you and India and all those lessons, I just want to pause on something you said. The difference between the friend space and the spiritual, like, holding the spiritual space. First of all, so beautiful that the person who did that for you is. Is and was your father in that moment. Amazing. I love that. So healing on, like, we could do a podcast just on that.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We could do a podcast on my father. He needs his own talking.

Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. But for people listening, thinking, well, I wonder which friend I would talk to. Or is that a friend space? Or is that a, you know, spiritual advocate or however you would call that kind of a guide? What is the difference between those two in your mind?

So I'll give you an example that illustrates this beautifully.

Yeah.

So I have a dear friend. I think friendship is innately protective, as is mostly parenting. It's innately protective. So if your friend or person is going to be hurt, you're like, nope, cut it off, shut it down. Put boundaries up, run away. You know, take care of yourself. When you're spiritual, you're able to sit and hold these, this bigger space that allows the person to have their lessons right, their growth. So I had a dear friend. I still have a dear friend. And she would talk to me all the time about her relationship. Personally, as her friend, I was like, no. This guy told, no. Absolutely not. Cut him out. He is awful. He treats you poorly. You could just see it like he's treating her awfully. But I would make sure to be centered in this more spiritual place and hold the space of pure acceptance and not push her to do something she wasn't ready to do. Right. So holding that container and so you're sort of talking to the person and allowing them to make their own choices, their own decisions. You're seeing their spirit's wisdom. You're holding the container of no judgment, and I'll love you anyway. And do you feel like you're ready to be done with him? And she'd be like, no. Okay, then keep at it. How can I support you in the space you're in? What do you need from me to be there to do that? So instead of giving opinions and judgments and berating him or her for being in it or shaming, it was just. While that sounds difficult, what are you learning? How are you growing? Are you ready to do something different? It was more of holding that container. And so when we're moving through those lessons, we have to think about, what do we need right now? Do we need to call the friend who's the ride or die? That's like, you know, give me the shovel, I'll bury the body.

Yeah.

The friend that's like, oh, let's think about what you did. Like, yeah, feel good. You know what I mean? It's. There's a difference. And. And how we show up for the people in our lives, we have to think about what they're in need of in that moment.

Yeah. What do you think of as spiritual? And were you spiritual at that point in your life? Like, were you using that word? Were you thinking of yourself as on a spiritual quest when you leave everything and make that big break and just. I want to set the tone for that, because I know we're already heading there in the conversation of just people who. I don't know, people who need to hear from you how you define it, or if they're in their own mind, unsure about how they define it?

Yeah. I mean, I think. It wasn't a term I used. I grew up in the deep South. My grandmother was like, church of God, you know, spoken tongues. She would have definitely had her own gifts that I learned about much later and went to Baptist churches, you know what I mean? It just was like that kind of deep south, like, meditation might be a sin. Don't dance. That kind of, like, you know, not strict, but that, that kind of world is where I grew up. But I was always, from a very young age, really curious. I mean, I remember seeing a television commercial for the Book of Mormon, and I think I was like 12. And so I ordered it. It was free, right? And my dad lost his mind. And my mom was like, she's just curious. Leave her alone. Like, she's not. Go be Mormon. And I would read that, and I read the Bible, and I just, all these different things to kind of intake information. So there was always a curiosity there. And I also, I think a real telltale sign is like, the feeling of being different. It's not that you're not accepted, but you just, you feel different than everybody else. You're kind of on the outside, and that's kind of a sign for a spiritual seeker. And then I knew, like, by college, I looked at the other people I was living with on a daily basis, and I just was like, I really see the world differently, you know, and so there's this thing. And then when I got really dialed into yoga and the yoga community, that world, that's when things started opening up. I remember taking a class in chakras. And I do think when we're actually spiritually inclined, other people may see it before we see it.

Yes.

I remember my friends who was like, oh, you should take this class about chakras. And I'm like, what's a chakra? And why are you recommending weird stuff to me? You know, it's like they saw it. And I remember my friends at the bank were like, why are you in banking? You don't belong here. And I was like, what are you saying? What do you mean? Everybody sees it first. When I left for India, by that point, I knew that I was spiritually seeking something.

Yes.

When we're spiritually seeking, it's actually the self, right? The capital self, that big self. That's the seeking part that happens. And we all do it differently. Sometimes we seek through spiritual things, sometimes we seek through exercise. Sometimes we seek through friendships, relationships, jobs, works, identity. I, I, I don't think we can be human and not be a seeker unless we're really depressed. But I think spiritually, something opens. And it's not necessarily, I want to learn Hindu concepts or I want to study the cabala. It can just be like, I want to sit in nature and connect in the plants.

Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because I've thought that about myself in my own life. There's this term with teenagers called a glow up. Do you know this term where someone, like, fully changes? I know you don't have teenagers in your home right now.

I don't, but yes. No glow up for sure.

Okay. So a glow up is what my teenage girls are like, oh, she had a glow up, or he had a glow up. If they see someone that they used to know in middle school and it's been two years and, you know, whatever. So I always feel this way. I get curious, as you know, about people's paths and the big moments in healing journeys that they're on and people will have. I think you are one of these people who have like a major, like, okay, I'm going to India. I'm making this big change, and it's a big glow up in your spiritual life, it's a evolution of consciousness. You basically up leveled your whole life, and I want you to tell us about that. But in my own life, I am glad that you referenced that. You could also just go sit in nature and seek in smaller ways. Because for me, I've always had this consistent kind of curiosity without these big glow up moments. And it's been so subtle that sometimes I've underestimated the power of that.

Yes.

You know, like the I'm so practical, you know, and that maybe that's my Capricorn, Whatever, Earthy. It's like my whole family is kind of like that. Like, practicality is a core value in our. In my upbringing.

Right.

So it's never this, like, big download. I got to go do this huge thing. But there have been remarkable insights and synchronicities in my life, but it feels much more consistent. So I'm you. I'm using myself and inviting the listener who also has that to not downplay it, but to see that seeking can look different.

Very different. And that. That curiosity, but also the glow ups that you're talking about, it's like we can have big, massive ones where they're really evident in the outside world. But even this past week, I've been in this space of I want to clear out and purge out anything old in my life. So I'm literally going through everything, every closet, every piece of paper, everything, trash, everything that doesn't work or giving it away or whatever. So I going through everything and clearing and cleaning and purging it out. And the energy is different I feel the difference. And I have a very perceptive friend come over and she is very energetically inclined and she just goes, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? She goes, something's different. You're changing. Yeah. Just from purging and cleaning the house. Because the intention behind it, right. Is stepping into the new. So that spiritual seeking, that opening, that upleveling of that glow up can look like sweeping your back porch. If you're mindful. Right. It doesn't have to be big.

Yeah. So, okay, you get to where you're going. Do you mean I. In my memory of your story, you immediately go to India, is that right? Or did you follow a longer path to get there?

No, I immediately I hauled up a map of India and I felt really called and pulled there because. Because of the yoga, I think it just felt like a natural place I wanted to land. I pulled up a map of India, I closed my eyes and I went, I will go here. And I just my finger on a city and bought a one way ticket. And so I. I traveled then through India for about six months until my visa ran out. I went over to Thailand, I studied Muay Thai, boxing, I studied the body alkalinity, fasting, detoxing, all of that in th. And then I went to Australia and was there for a few months before I left for Indonesia. And was there, I landed in Bali. And that's when I started, you know, meeting people who really started expanding my world. And along the way I just knew I needed something different. I didn't know what I was looking for. Yes, myself, but I didn't know that. And I. My thing was I am going to just do, read, meet, talk to whatever I am attracted or pulled to.

Okay.

That was my curriculum for the year and a half that I was abroad. And it was just like, oh, I want to go here, I'll go there. I want to try this food, I'll try that food. I want to learn this thing. I learned Bali on a talk sue, which is a type of Balinese massage.

Yeah.

And I learned it and I studied it. And then I was like, I went to give my practice massage and I was like, I don't, I don't want to be doing this for people. That's if you like this. Right. So it's just this gathering an insight into who you are. So when you're on that kind of journey and you know you're looking for something else, I think the tip I would give here would really be pay attention to what you're pulled to and attracted to. And don't go in the mind to judge it and make sense of it. Just open, like, yes, happens. If I learn that if I talk to this person, if I go on this walk or go to this museum, what happens? Shows up.

Did you end up partnering with any sort of guru or teacher in a consistent way, or was it more just the. These very synchronistic interactions?

Very synchronistic guru. A lot of people go that path in India. That is never a path that's appealed to me. I wanted it to. I wanted to feel pulled to the guru, do the things. And I just. Everything in me was like, I don't want the power outside of myself. I don't want to find it that way. That's not the way for me. It is the way for some people. So, you know, it was like weird things where I would feel pulled. I went to a yoga ashram and I got kicked out, actually.

Why?

So I, you know this. In the yoga ashram ashram, it was like, you do yoga twice a day. You do pranayama, 30 minutes. You do. You know, it's very scheduled. And I was having a lot of body pain. Things were hurting. And so instead of going to the class, I went to the rooftop, and I was playing a Rod striker who's a yoga teacher. I was playing one of his classes. I always say, rod striker got me kicked out of yoga, but I was playing one of his classes because I needed to move my body in a different way than the classes they were teaching. And the instructor, like, saw me up there and came up there, and she gave me the what for, like, why are you being class. And I was like, I'm just trying to do something different for my. Myself, you know, like, I just need this. And she's like, then why are you here? And I had been there for almost three weeks at that point, and I just said, I don't know, I think it's time I leave. You know, it wasn't kind of reaction or shaming. I was just like, why am I here? I don't know. I was done. And so I would leave. And then that was all about, like, power and systems. And. And yet there was a lot of meditation where I would have clear visions. And that was the first time I was really clear visions in meditation. And then it was exploring the beach. And then I ended up. I went to this doctor to get my finger, like, fixed because it was hurting. And he tried to take advantage of me. Once he had me in the room. Like.

Yeah.

That a male can dominate a female. And. And it was like learning in that moment to use my voice and call and help and.

Yeah.

With another learn. And it just was. It was one thing after another, which is the magic of India, but also the magic of intent that you set to awaken. Yeah. It was one thing after another where there was no planned set place to learn. It just all the teachings came know.

Yeah. And to be so self referenced, it's. It seems like we would be. But we're not like to even ask, is this true for me?

Yes.

That. That's a question that's way more recent for me, you know, Or. Or the question what do I need right now? It's kind of shocking when you start asking it how many years you didn't ask it.

Right. The. The need thing. Can we just talk about the need thing for a moment? Because my own evolution, that's what I'm going through. You know, I think a lot of us, especially in the south, as women and as women in general, we learn to be people pleasers. We learn to just accommodate. And so we backseat our own needs. And to be in this place of what do I need? And how do I ask myself what I need? That is a very recent concept.

Yes.

And it is like in relationship, are we trusting relationship enough where we can ask for our needs and recognize if the person does or doesn't show up? It's not about our value or worth. It's not worth it. It's just. It's worth it.

I think that alone is huge. Like, I was so invested in being low maintenance when I first got married. It was like, I'm going to be the lowest maintenance wife Boyd has ever had. Boyd's only had one wife. And we've only been married once, each of us. But it's like it was just. I was so invested in that and that that was my ticket to like making the marriage work. And I just won't speak up. And not in like a completely kind of doormat way. That's not my personality, but just really accommodating is the word that you said that resonates with me. Very accommodating.

Because it comes from this quiet strength, what comes from a lot of neglect and all the things in our childhood. But it comes from this also this quiet strength of I'm okay being uncomfortable. I know I can handle it, but let me care. Take them. Because I don't trust they can. Right.

Yes.

And so when we really start advocating for our own needs not in a pushy way, but in just a. This is what I need. And you can serve that or you can't. What happens is we get to really see who we're aligning with.

Yeah.

That looks like. And it's eye opening and empowering and if you want to, you want to have that kind of glow up, that right there is the way. Right?

Yes. Needs.

Am I asking for them and I am I accepting of if they can or can't and then am I realigning myself to be people who actually can meet those needs?

Yeah. And so I'm having a flashback in our session when you said to me, which is something I'm still working on, which is relevant to what we just talked about, I draw the boundaries for other people. And that. Do you? I don't know if you remember session I was like, oh my gosh, that's so me. That's so accurate. But it was so subtle at first. And it's exactly what you're talking about. Knowing where you stop and somebody else starts and that the other person is accountable to drawing their own boundaries. And with my husband, I do it all the time where I'm like, oh wait, if, if you're going to be uncomfortable, I'm going to anticipate that you're going to be uncomfortable and then I'll draw the boundary for you.

So.

And that, and that need or desire then impacts my behavior and my choices because I'm so busy drawing the boundary for him instead of the vulnerability of what's going to happen when I say what I need and I live through the consequence, however he takes that.

Right. And I think a lot of people, we also draw other people's boundaries. Because it's self protecting.

Yes.

Because if someone doesn't know how to draw their own boundaries, then they can be resentful.

Yeah.

And then we're the recipients of that. Right. When we let other people, we trust other people to know what works for them or what doesn't work for them. It's really magical what starts happening.

Yes.

And I learned as I was developing, I would feel, because I'm feel everything and I would feel like who wasn't drawing their boundaries. And it would be really uncomfortable for me. And I had this massage therapist that I love to see and I would say, hey, is there any chance you can get me in the next couple weeks? And I would be fine if she would say, no, but I can get you in three weeks. Or I could, but she would be, oh, let me look and let me see. And let me. And I would get so uncomfortable with it because she wasn't drawing her boundaries. I said to her, she's an amazing therapist, but I'm like, I'm uncomfortable because I need. Drawing boundaries creates a safety. A safety. Right? It's a container.

Yeah.

And so to trust other people to draw their boundaries is massive.

Yeah. So good. So you come back from India. You come back to North Carolina?

I did back to Georgia. So I sold my house. I had nothing to go back to.

Okay.

I legit had $5,000 in my bank account by the time I was done with Indonesia was the last place I was in.33 years old with my parents. In Georgia.

In Georgia. And did you immediately start working and doing the healing work? Okay. What led you to that?

Come back? I was having these dreams that my dad was dying, and they were constant. And I would wake up in Bali, and I wouldn't know, like, is he already dead? Is he not dead? What's happening? And so I knew I had to go back to spend time, you know, with him and just to visit. And so I went back, was with my parents, and I thought it was a temporary. Just. I'll be maybe like a month, maybe two months, and then I'll go back. Because at this point, I wanted to live abroad. And I still do sometimes. Right.

You'll get there. I. I trust you'll get there if you have that desire.

Dana Childs 27:58 - 29:05: When I. I landed there, I had friends in Charlotte, in. In Charlotte, North Carolina, where I was from. And so I borrowed my mom's car. Cause I'd sold my car. I had nothing. I borrowed my mom's car, drove to Charlotte and was visiting friends. And the week that I was there, one of my friends said she had an office that she wanted to rent me. And I was like, I'm not even working. I don't know what you're talking about. One of my friends said, you should move back. All of their kids had gone to college, and they were like, we want you to live in the house so it's not, you know, fully empty, but you couldn't. We wouldn't allow you to pay rent. And I was like, okay, I don't even have a car. Like, I can't do anything right now. My dad called that same week and said, I just real remembered we had this, like, junker car that is at your sister's house, and we can give it to you. And it just. Everything fell in line. And I had a friend of mine who. He was like, hey, I hear you're in town. I want to see what you learned in India. Like, let's hang out. So I gave him a little reading a session and he was like, oh my gosh, my friend would love this. Sent me somebody, she sent me somebody. Within a week, I had three clients, an office.

I love it.

And a place to live. It just found me. And so after being with my parents, I think I ended up living with them for like three, four, five months, something like that. And then I relocated back to Charlotte and, and started the practice and I had six months worth of office rent that I could pay. So I thought, well, in six months I'll, I'll make it or break it. I'm going to work or it's not going to go back to teaching or I'll go back into weight tables or whatever. And it just snowballed.

It took off so beautiful. So for people who are not sure what an energy healing experience is, like, what, what is that for you? What does working with energy mean to you? How do you tap into someone's. Because you work over the phone, you don't need to see people. You're working in a different level of awareness than a conventional, let's say either psychotherapy or medical doctor. You know, you're really working with energy.

Yeah, it's, it's energy. And for me it's, it looks different depending on what someone's looking for when they show up. So it is. I do work over the phone unless I'm on property. So I, I have a partnership with the Four Seasons in Oahu, Hawaii, their wellness partner. And I'll be there. I usually am there in like July and December doing in person stuff or I have retreats. And that's the in person kind of component. Yeah, but when I'm talking to someone, they may come to me with certain things. It may be health, they may be referred by their doctor or something like that. They can't quite figure out what's going on in their body. And so what that kind of session would look like is, it's more like conversation based. So I'll, I hear their spirit. I like connect to their higher self. And their higher self will give me information, places to go, questions to ask that get us down to what's really happening. So if someone calls and their spirit might say, ask about joint pain, asked about, you know, certain symptoms and I can feel like, oh, it's actually a toxin or it's fatty liver, or it's, you've actually got something that you need to have MRI or you Know, it's like feeling kind of what's there. But sometimes they come to me with relationship stuff. And so in that case, it's feeling their energy, what their spirit and soul's doing, what those lessons are that they're learning and feeling their partners. So if I get into energy by name, so if someone gives me the name of someone, I can feel their energy, their thought patterns, their. The things that are going on in. So for example, I had a client for years who worked for the government and she would call and she'd be like, okay, got a new boss, I'm in a new department, here's what I'm. And I would get their names and then I could feel like, here's how you manage this person, here's how you connect to this person, here's this person's wounding and here's how that's going to show up. And yeah, person that you need to keep notes on, every call you have, it all kind of comes out. So for everybody it's different.

Yeah.

But I would say the main thing that happens in all the sessions is some kind of huge perspective shift or transformation.

Yeah, it's.

It's transforming how they do relationships, what their work life looks like, are they on purpose, what their health is, you know, how they view the world, what their connection to their own spirituality is. It's going to be some type of massive transformation that occurs.

Can you have the same level of insight about yourself?

Yes.

Okay. And how do you. So, yes, I want to, I want to understand how you tap into your own intuition because I know a big part of your work is also teaching others to harness this power of intuition and insight.

Yeah. So it's radical self honesty. Okay. A lot of people will say, oh, if you're intuitive, you can't get information about yourself. It's very incorrect. You definitely can. Yeah. Get information about yourself. You really have to know. You have to be so self aware that you know your pitfalls, your downfalls, you know the places where your ego is going to speak up. And you have to be willing to do this constant continual work with the self. It's like, yeah, I know my patterns of avoidant attachment, I know my patterns of running away. I know my patterns of shutting people down and shutting people out and all of that. And so if I come up like in relationship, one of the things I've been working on the past couple years is if I feel slighted, rejected, if my partner avoids, pulls away, how do I anchor myself into the place of softness, openness, forgiveness, and welcoming not to be a door. How do I anchor into that so when we know we can get the information. I tend to get a lot of information through meditation. Through hearing is a really strong gift. Or seeing.

Yeah.

Um, and so it's hearing or seeing, but we have to know our blind spots too. Right. So one of my blind spots is my dog. She's a nine year old little Frenchie. She's adorable. She's laying right here. So you might hear her snoring in the background. But.

Yeah.

But when it comes to like health stuff or stuff for her, I get emotional.

Yeah.

When I am in my emotion, in a connection, I am not going to be accurate. That is a place where I'm going to call another intuitive or an animal communication or something like that.

Yeah.

Times when I'm not emotional. Oh, it's her foot and it's. I can see like oh, the bone's a little out of place and how do we move that back and those things. But, but if we have deep emotion about something, connection, attachment to something, to an outcome, our intuition is not going to be at play because our ego is going to be grabbing on.

Yeah. And so when you started to master the way and trust really, I think so much about healing, at least as far as the healer goes, is trusting your own abilities so that you can offer them. And then self healing, which you and I share this belief we're all naturally wired to self heal. You know, that's also about trust. So you get to the point where you're really mastering how your sessions work. What are some of the ways that your work has evolved over that? So do you immediately go to teaching intuition through. I mean you start with the one on one practice and then you know, I, I've, when I've tracked you along the way, it's around courses that you've offered and getting your voice out there and really empowering others. And I know now you're taking even another pivot into plant medicine, which I want to understand the difference between energy healing and healing with the help of plant medicine. So take us into that kind of path. And some of the things that you teach when you are talking about intuition.

Yeah. So it's an interesting path because it's like I find intuition starts with self awareness. And a lot of people will say intuition comes outside. It's a skill you can learn. And yes is a skill. We all have it. We are all psychic, intuitive, all the things. The more self aware we are, it naturally opens because we start to know what is us and what is not us.

Yes.

What our set point is. And then. Oh, that's right. So when we start to get really self aware, intuition is going to naturally open. So when people come to me. When I started out, I was doing a lot of mediumship, a lot of connecting to the deceased. And through that there was a ton of healing that was happening for people. And then I realized I could see their energy, I could see their body, I could see what was holding in tight. And so I self taught myself the energy medicine piece of like when things get stuck in the cells, when things get stuck in a psyche, when things are buried deep and you have to kind of work them out of the energy stuff. And so I was doing those side by side for a long time. I retired mostly from the mediumship piece. Now it's come comes in sessions sometimes. But I don't just do those sessions.

Yeah.

Solo. And what I was finding is I was merging together all of this ability to see energy, move energy, talk about the psychological components that were happening is there were these deeper traumas that would be stop. And so I was like, oh, if they can open their intuition right. They'll know and be able to get in there. And so then it started after the first couple of years, then I started really teaching the intuition. And again, my approach is a little different. I can teach you skill sets all day long. Yeah, I'm going to make you look at your stuff because that's how you pop. Your intuition is you know who you are and then you know what you're not. Right. And who you're not.

Yeah.

And then as I was teaching people and they would get really deep and they were having these amazing like shifts and changes. There would be these deeper places where people would be stuck and it was like I couldn't get down in it. You know what I mean? Couldn't get down in it. Their therapist couldn't get down in it. And so I was looking, looking, looking. And then I hit my own place of health issues, like really sick. For years. It took me eight years to finally get the right diagnosis. It was mold toxicity and Lyme and those come with a lot of trauma. They're trauma induced pieces that sit in the body. And two different doctors said to me, have you thought about trying psychedelics? And I was, you know, I was a dare girl. I was like, never drugs, you know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

And then after the second doctor said it, I was like, okay, let me just lean into that. And I started feeling the pull and So I searched and I found a practitioner who was doing medicine. And when I was searching for the practitioners, I was looking for psychedelic mushrooms. Like someone to hold that space for me and do that journey so I could heal my gut. Brain connection. Right. Pieces that were out of alignment. And all the practitioners I talked to said, we don't recommend you start with mushrooms, we recommend you start with MDMA. And that really opens this, like, trauma space. It holds you in a space where you can process it without the heaviness that sometimes mushrooms will allow. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, then I'll start there. So I did that first journey, this is several years back, and it changed my whole world. I understood why I was sick, I understood my family dynamics. And so it's psychic information that's coming in. But the psychedelic component allows the trauma to heal at this deep level without the. Without you getting stuck and mired in the emotion or the depression or the actual physical trauma maybe processing. And I could see all these things shifting around ancestral lineage, lineage healing, self awareness of past relationships, why I had done them, what I had allowed, who I had contracted with. And it's a four to six hour, you know, journey, if you will. And when I came out of it, I remember looking at the practitioner and I was like, I'm meant to do this for other people. I. When can I come back? Like, what?

Yeah. So four to six hours. That's what I'm stuck on. Are you. Do you go into a physical office and is the practitioner cueing you along? Four to six hours with one person, one on one. It's a long time to understand that.

Yeah, everybody does it different. And so with the plant medicines, the way I have done it, am currently doing it, and I'm about to shift that, so we'll talk about that too, is one on one, because I want to get all the way down in there. Now, there are groups, right? There are people who do ayahuasca, there are big groups, there are plants groups. And when I'm working with someone, I want them to go into every piece and I want to be right there, you know, with them. There are. There are practitioners who will put you in a room, lay you in a reclining chair, put headphones on, play music, give you ketamine or MDMA or mushrooms or whatever, plant medicine or psychedelic medicine, and just leave you be. And that may work for some people. That is not how I work and it's not what I found to be effective. And these are like, you know, in person things. So, yeah, we'll come in and there'll be an intake where we're talking about what is it you're looking to heal, what is the trauma, what are the places we're looking for. And I'll look at their energy the next day when they come back. It's the, the taking of the medicine and depending on the medicine given it can be as short as two to three hours.

Okay.

But typically four to six where that person is journeying, they're going in, I'm there the whole time holding their hand, whatever they need, you know, helping them to the bathroom if they need to go, asking them questions, helping move and process the energy, then getting them home. Then the next day it's like we're going to integrate, we're going to talk about what happens. So it's a deep, intense process of healing and I found that the one on ones are, are deeply transformative. Like yeah, we're walking out a different person than you walked in here as. And now I'm starting to do smaller groups because of the time intensity. Right. It's kind of, it can be sure for people not to keep people from it. It's like it's cost prohibitive when you're spending three full days with someone in someone's energy. And so I'm like, okay, so if we can get these, you know, small groups, it allows group energy transformation and allows, you know, cost effective. And so then it's, you're talking, you know, 5 to 6 ish, 7 ish people where there's the. It becomes a weekend, becomes a retreat, becomes a healing space where all of that's getting moved and processed out. But the places before when I was just doing energy medicine and mediumship, it was like those places I can't get to like what is it? What is it? The plant medicine gets all the way in. It allows these bigger shifts that we can't quite get to sometimes on our own. And it's not for everybody, but it's for a lot of bodies.

When you experienced your session, it sounds like that one on one and that cue, you know, really digging into the journey is what worked for you. So then you started offering it to other people in that same way. So it makes sense to the structures because you've had the evidential experience of what it can do.

Yeah, I think when we're in those deep places of trauma, you know, be they physical, emotional, whatever, having that one on one is having that parent, that caretaker. Yeah. Didn't get as a child, it's there and that in and of itself is so healing.

How do you make that choice? So if I'm someone who is hearing this podcast, but also it's kind of in our zeitgeist right now. You know, there's books right now. There's a lot of podcasts right now about it. I feel like it's getting a little bit of its day in the sun. I think it's going to get even more light. I think it's at the beginning of its day in the sun. So I think a lot of people are intellectually interested in it, which could be different than actually engaging with it. So if you're speaking to someone who's kind of on the fence or like, how do. How do I know? How do I get that clarity? Or how do I get that pull to really explore my life in this way? And how do I trust that? What would you say to somebody who's on the fence about it?

So I'm going to say a bunch of different things, and I'm going to weave together some topics. Synchronous, which we talked about, right? Yes. There's no such thing as coincidence. We think there is. There's no such thing as coincidence. Everything is aligned, and we're moving in that flow, in that space of openness, and we're bringing it in. When we are ready for something, it will appear. If it's coming across our path and we're ready, it's there. You know, they say when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Yes. I love that we have synchronicities. We have evolution. Right. Evolution of ourselves. And we're ready or we're not. You know, some kids get their learners at 15, their driver's license at 16, and some kids get their learners at 18 and don't drive.

Yeah.

They're ready or not. And so being on that, if you're curious, it's showing up in your world. There is something there that your spirit is inviting you to explore. But different people for different things. Just like if you start to do yoga, some people do it for the body stuff, the physicality. Some people do it for the spirituality, Some people do it for the meditative aspect. It is going to work on your system, and the end point is going to be the same, right?

Yeah.

But so with plant medicine, it's kind of the same. There are a lot of options. We have to see what comes across your path, but also what you need. So one of the things I'll do is if someone's really interested in it, we need to have, like, A little bit of a, just a, you know, 15 minute kind of let's connect just to feel right if I'm the right person for you, if you're the right person for me, you know, health questionnaires, that kind of thing. But I will feel like in their energy what medicine best serves them, what they're going to have the best outcome with. And if I don't offer that medicine, I will try to direct them to someone who does or tell them what to go look for. Yeah, some people I think just try whatever, which is fine too. But different medicines serve different purposes. So MDMA, if you've got deep trauma and it's heavy stuff.

Yeah.

Amazon to get you there. But if you have heart issues or things like that, you're not going to be able to take it. Or psych, psychological, you know, diagnoses like personality disorders, bipolar, that kind of thing, you're not going to be able to do plant medicine. It's not going to work. Well yeah, if you have things like hyper addiction, you know, your sexual addiction or drug addict, really bad drug addiction. Ibogaine or iboga, which is a plant medicine out of Africa. If you're looking at your nervous system's really overwhelmed, you have a lot of anxiety, you don't do well with medicines in the system. You might be looking more at ketamine, be that in a clinical setting through an IV or a shot. Right?

Yeah.

Mushrooms I think are amazing because they move through the physical body, they create physical changes, mental changes and that's going to have its own place for whatever you're ready to move. A deeper understanding and opening of spirituality, a moving of the trauma through the physical body. So all the different medicines have their own place and time. You know, there's ambo, which is a medicine out of the Amazon and it's less psychedelic and more physical, so sets the physical body and it's coming into a lot of attention right now because there's a lot of drug companies studying it because it's so beneficial that they want. And then you've got bufo, which is that connection to oneness to God, then knowing that there is more there. So every plant medicine has its own flavor and it's going to depend on physically what you're ready for as well as what you're looking to do and what you're looking to move. So to talk with someone who's knowledgeable about different ones, who gets you in the right place I think is important and re read research, you know, but also a referral, someone that you trust, not just Joe Blowchmo off the street, someone that you trust that has, you know, a little bit of a record for getting people where they are needing to go.

Yeah, yeah. So this is how I feel about any healing modality. Is that the integration piece, the application piece, it's so important. And sometimes I. It's not that I worry, but it's. Sometimes I might be a little judgy in our culture right now. I don't feel like the integration piece gets enough airtime.

Yes.

And I'm concerned about that for. For people who are curious about it and resonate with it, you know, and I know that you walk your talk and you have been healed. You've had that experience. So talk to us first personally, like, how did the MDMA then integrate? You know, how. How did you then apply that journey into your life as it relates to your own wellness? And it's been years. So talk to us about that. And then just in general, professionally, how important integration is. Yeah.

Let me start by saying the first medicine that I was referred to was ayahuasca. And I was referred to like the couple who did it in the groups that were happening. And so I went at the time with my partner, at the time we went and did ayahuasca. It was not the medicine for me. I did not like the space that was held. I didn't feel safe. I had to get therapy after to process the actual session. It just didn't for me and I didn't want to go back. My partner got a ton of information about things he should do to heal his past marriage, the things that were happening in his life, and he did none of them.

Yeah.

Right. And so I was like, huh? It was just interesting to watch kind of from the outside, because he wanted to go back, like every two months, he wanted to go back and do the group and do the medicine. He still does it all the time. And he was chasing the high.

Yeah.

And heart opening and not doing the integration. And so he continued to need the medicine again and again and again and again because he wasn't integrating it. Yeah. And so to watch, that was very informative to me. So after I did my session with the practitioner, the first MDMA session, I had follow up sessions with her every two weeks.

Yeah.

For the next six weeks. Because it really takes six weeks to integrate.

Okay, that's helpful. Yeah, it really takes six weeks.

And they say, like, no big life decisions, no big changes, nothing for six weeks while you're integrating that medicine. And as I was Doing that, I made sure to have a call with her every two weeks where I was looking at, well, this has come up and what's happening here. And here's how I feel different, here's how I feel emotional and here's. And to have her reflect back to me the changes that were happening that I might have missed because I was in the. It was, yes, really powerful.

Yeah.

I went right back after six weeks and did another one. Like I knew I was like, I'm not one and done, I need two. So I did another one and the same thing. I would follow up with that integration, but I would also sit and do my own meditation and my own work around. Okay. The things that I learned about my family or my past relationships. How am I looking at those patterns now and changing them?

Yeah.

Like I would stay very conscious and I would work with a practitioner and I would have, you know, sometimes I'm like, okay, it's not the practitioner I need, it's actually a therapist. And I would call my therapist, you know, and have a session with her to work through those therapeutic components or an energy practitioner to work through those components. And I would make sure that I was continuing to do the work around it. And I will say that spirit tends to be really clear when you set clear intention. And so if you start going down the path where you're using the plant medicine to escape something or to get away from something, it usually will not be a pleasant journey.

Yeah.

I'll tell you right off the bat, like, don't do that again, you know?

Yeah.

So I think holding yourself accountable and having the conversations, the follow up integration conversation, so that you're seeing and feeling the difference in landing because it also MDMA and mushrooms and they will reset your nervous system.

Yeah.

And so you want help walking through lay awareness of reset so that you don't get triggered back into something that's fight or flight.

What's your point of view on the timing of this? Because you've been in the healing world for a long time, you know, and you've studied it and you've seen how other countries do it. And what, what is the timing and why are we so ready for it now? Why is it capturing our attention in the collective?

Well, I mean we've got, you know, we've got moving into the age of Pisces. We've got all of Aquarius. Right. All of these changes that are happening. But when you look back at our ancestry, our indigenous ancestry, you know, what's sitting there is they knew and Understood these things. They knew how to use the mushrooms. They knew how to use the substances to move out the traumas that were sitting in the body. And then for years, we demonized them and got so far away from them that we, as a collective, have been building up all this trauma in ourselves that is creating a ton of physical disease, misalignment, maladies, you know, in the world, you can see it as well. And I think there is a human collective creation of. We bring in the healing when we're ready. Just like in a family lineage. Families that have a ton of addiction, incest, things that can't be healed or cleaned up easily. They'll bring in healers through the lineage to start to clean, clear that. And as the human collective, we're opening back up to other options that we have abandoned. Just like our food has come full cycle. Right. We're back to organics. We're back to putting in our body. And so we're back to that place of how do we release and clean and clear all the trauma that we have been collecting through the years that is in our way of connection to other people? Because as humans, we are born and biologically wired to connect, to experience. No separation, which is what's true.

Yeah.

This is one thing. Think about mushrooms in general. You have the. You know, they grow underground. They're mycelium. They're all connected. Mushrooms are what, the oldest thing on the planet?

Yeah.

They do all the iterations. They carry so much wisdom, and they're all about connections. The mushroom teaches. There is no other. There is nothing outside of you. There is no other separate from you. And so that ancient wisdom, we're ready for it. That's why there's also this looking to indigenous cultures. Where's the wisdom that we have lost along the way?

Yes. I feel that so much like going back to basics.

Yes.

Like, let's. That. Maybe that's my teaching background, but you have a teaching background, too. But it's like that. I know that resonates with you. It's just like, can we get the basics from kindergarten back in the mix? Be nice to your neighbor. Hold hands when you cross the street. Yeah, let's do that.

Yes. Well, you know, I. I find it interesting that we're at this place in the world where economically, politically, we're looking at, like, the injustices of war and like, oh, my gosh, how dare we be at war? Why are we at war? Why is fighting? And yet in your homes, in our homes, we are also at war.

Yes.

People in Our homes. Who are we fighting with? Our neighbors or internally? Right. The ultimate holy war, if you will, is internal. What are we fighting against in ourself? So as a society where we're trying to, like, have peace for the world, we don't even have that internally right now.

Yes.

And so we're looking for ways that are going to bring that in.

Yeah.

And I will say, one of the amazing things about plant medicine is this deep sense of faith and peace and trust that it can leave you with that you start to integrate and weave into your life.

Yeah. How do you take care of yourself when you witness all these healings and you visit people's traumas and you hold space for people to confront? Pretty. Confronting stuff, you know, how do you clear it? How do you take care of yourself? Talk to us about that, because I think that applies for anybody, regardless of if they're working.

Of course, there's definitely like the. The sort of skill set of sitting afterward and clearing the pieces of karma that are hanging around and. And. And clearing the pieces of their energy and things that came through and doing that kind of like sweeping the house. Right. It's like sweeping energy. So there's cleaning and clearing that way. But then as a healer, there's the awareness of what it takes out of the cells in the body. So there's more minerals, more nutrients, more hormones. At a younger age, there's all of those things that the body uses a lot more of energetically and the awareness of that. I prioritize spending time with friends. That is very important to me. I love my IV drips, you know, when I need them to get those minerals flushed in time with my dog, time outside, hiking, walking, like those things. So after I have a client in town and we do, like, our three days together, I am really going to take some downtime. The night after working with someone, I am going to not do a whole lot. I'm going to look like a couch potato. I am going to just. That's the cleaning and the clearing and the releasing of energy. So it's. And every healer may be different. So it's knowing, you know, as yourself, like, what do you need? So if you go to a party and you're an introvert, you. You know, you're going to need to come home and be home maybe the next day.

Yeah.

Kind of learning like that a little bit too. Like what fills you up, what feels restorative and. And then how you do that.

Yeah. Have you changed your mind about some of the guiding principles of healing and Self awareness and, you know, let's call it higher levels of consciousness from when you started to. Now you have. Okay, well, you tell us. I'm aware of our time, but will you tell us about that?

So one of the things I teach, because this started happening for me, is I always say, take what resonates as I'm teaching it, as I'm talking about it. Take what resonates and don't take it as the end all, be all. If you learn something later that feels better or expands the concept you've been taught, lean into that. Right. There is no right or wrong. And I used to believe in the concept of, like, old souls and young souls.

Yes.

I do not believe in that anymore now. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I believe we have different lessons. Right. I believe we can be operating on a kindergarten level versus a college level. But the age of things, I just don't know that I, you know, believe that. When I first started practicing, I really believed in, like, heaven as a. As a place and hell as a place.

Yeah.

And now with the amount of mediumship I've done and the studying of how energy moves, I'm like, there's no such. It's a state of mind. There is no such place. Right. That's happening. It's a state of mind. And we can be in heaven and hell, even alive in these conscious bodies. So I have learned to learn one thing and trust that until it becomes something different. I think in the spiritual world, a lot of people go into thinking about, like, spiritual hierarchy. Like, oh, well, I'm more advanced and I know this, and I don't believe that anymore at all. There is no such thing as hierarchy. It looks more like this. Like we're all just on these different frequencies or vibrations, and we all have these different uniquenesses and gifts.

Yeah.

No one is better at than you, but we all have them.

Yes.

There can't really be hierarchy at all.

Beautifully said. I'm really excited about your work right now. Yes. I'm so glad that you spent this hour with us and just sharing what's up for you and what you've learned and the journey of healing and really trusting. What I hear you saying is trusting your own intuitive hits and trusting that you know who you are, you remember who you are, and you will be led to what you need to heal.

Always. It'll. It'll be available as soon as you're ready for it. And you know, I always do that. Rule of three times. Yes, I've heard it now. Three times. Then it's time to take a look at it. Right? Kind of lean into it.

I love that so many grateful reflections from this episode. I love that the person who held that non judgmental space of pure acceptance for Dana at such a pivotal moment in her life was her father, who holds that space for you. How do you show up for the people in your life when they're spiritually seeking, which is when they're looking for the self with a capital S as Dana says. I love how Dana frames spiritual awakening and personal evolution around intention. You can up level your whole life just by sweeping the back porch if you're mindful about it. I love Dana's invitation to release this question of self worth in relationships. If you advocate for your needs and wants in a relationship and the other person doesn't show up, it's not about your self worth. It's just the truth of where that person is. We could all be liberated from this idea that someone else's limitations are reflective of what we deserve. You deserve to be aligned with people who can actually collaborate with you to meet your needs and show up in relationship with the same whole heart that you do. Sometimes that means being patient, letting that person rise. And that's vulnerable, but it's also transformative. I love that Dana connects self awareness and intuition. Too often we think we have to go learn the skill of intuition and it's outside, outside of us. Actually. We need to learn ourselves. We need to know our emotional pitfalls and our attachments and our fears. Only when we know more about who we are can we discern our intuitive knowing with more clarity. Mostly, I love how Dana believes in healing. When you're ready, the pathway to healing will be revealed. That may be through energy, work or nature or friendship or plant medicine or a change in your diet. It may be from cleaning out your closet, but it starts with setting the intention to heal and being clear about that so your spirit can give you the awareness you seek. Follow the polls, pay attention if you're getting the same message three times and trust your spirit, that part of you that transcends logical thinking. Trust that spirit wants you to be whole, wants you to be well, and wants you to be happy. Thank you Dana. That was so fun. I loved our conversation. I deeply respect the work that you do in the world and I know it helps so many people. I admire how you do it with such professionalism, wisdom and warmth, compassion, groundedness and keen intuition that helps people to transform their relationships and their lives. I'm very grateful for this time with you. And for the invitation you gave to all of us to seek our own guidance and trust our unique paths. For those of you curious about Dana's work, please reference the show notes to find out more. Okay y', all, that's it for now. I will meet you here again soon. Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening. I'm so grateful we get to share life in this way. As always, full show notes are available@paigenolan.com podcast there you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways, and any resources mentioned in our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review. You can do that by visiting paigenolan.com Love your reviews, really do help people to discover the show. And if you know someone, Smith specifically, who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share. I'll meet you there with your friends. Lastly, if you have any questions or comments or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meetmethereagenolan.com I would love to hear from you. Thank you to the team that makes this show possible. Podcast production and marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonald Donnell Cover photography by Innis Casey okay y', all, that's it for now. I'll meet you there again.