S2E6: Celebrating Fatherhood: Chris Rose and Boyd McDonnell on Modern Dad Life

It was always important for me. And maybe it's out of being selfish to not miss anything now because of my work. And earlier in my career, I traveled extensively. One year I was gone 180 days. Wow, 180. And I turned down jobs, good jobs. And it's probably cost me a bit in my career because I needed to be here. I just did. There were times where Josh was going through a few things and I knew I had to be home. I've left jobs. I told my bosses, I said, I got to go home. I said, yeah, I hope you understand. And most of the time they have. But there are also times where it's cost me opportunities and I don't regret it because you only have one chance to be a parent at that specific time and you don't know if you miss that time when your kid needs you the most. If you say, well, I'll get to it Tuesday when I get home, instead of being Thursday, and you got to get home, I have had to get home. And you don't know if that's the day where you could have prevented something from going the wrong direction.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan. Welcome to. I'll meet you there. A place where heart centered conversations are everything. Living what matters is the truest thing, and sharing the journey is the best. Hi everyone and welcome back. Today our episode is about celebrating fatherhood. So Boyd is back. For those of you who are new to the podcast, Boyd is my husband of 20 years and the father to our three teenagers. We have twin daughters who recently graduated from high school and a son who is turning 16 years old in a few weeks. I also invited our good friend and neighbor Chris Rose to join us. Chris is married to his beloved wife, Michelle, and they have two sons, Josh, who is 24 years old, and Brady, who is 19 years old. We share a fence in our backyard and for the past six years, I've heard Chris's parenthood and family life and he's heard ours. And they sound similar. Dogs barking, ours more than theirs. Lots of swimming and sports, some banter, many requests for retrieving balls that have been hit or thrown over the fence, and of course, the laughter. You'll hear that laughter today. We had a lot of fun being together for this conversation. Chris tells us about his Ohio upbringing, what was important in his first family. And Chris and Boyd both describe their dads and the messages they got about family in those early years. We talk about career pathing. Chris and Boyd both get to do what they love and they Talk about the role that mentoring played in helping them to get where they are now. Chris has had a long and successful career in broadcasting. You may have heard his voice and know his work with MLB Network and the NFL Network. You can also find his current work with John Boye media on the YouTube channel JM Baseball, where he hosts the popular shows Dugout Discussions with Chris Rose and Baseball Today. You can also listen to those shows as podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts and enjoy Chris's passion and talent. Boyd's career started in television sales and distribution, with some production in there, too. But his heart has always been with music. Through a series of pivots and risks, Boyd was able to blend his experience in TV with his passion for music when he launched his own music production company, 21South Music, about six years ago. In this episode, we also talk about raising sons and having daughters about to leave for college. And we celebrate sensitive, affectionate, and heartfelt fathering. We hit on youth sports. Boyd and I specifically wanted to hear Chris's perspective on youth sports, and we appreciated what he had to say. And I know you will, too. At the end, you will hear the delightfully simple ways that Chris and Boyd enjoy their family lives the most, and it will invite you to be grateful for the smallest moments that are the sweetest ones in family life. This episode put me in the best mood, and I hope it lifts you up, too. Enjoy this conversation with Chris and Boyd. All right, team, I'm here to celebrate Dad's father's family life, your lives. Let's start from the beginning. Chris Rose. We want to hear about early Chris Rose. Dad, Memories paint the picture Midwest. By the way, Boyd's been on the podcast before, so they know a little bit about him, but we got to bring you into the folds.

Well, for people who don't know, first of all, we're neighbors.

We are.

Did you tell everybody?

Yeah.

Does everybody know that we're neighbors?

They're gonna know now.

That's an important part of this story.

Yeah, we know everybody's deep, dark secrets here, for God's sakes. And I almost stopped my tracks when I had. When I came into this setting, I was like, paige, you got all made up for this.

I totally put on makeup. I actually, when I put on the makeup, I thought to myself, this is a true story. I was like, I wonder if Chris is going to notice that I want a little bit of makeup.

Hey, I notice everything. I notice everything. So I.

When it's that drastic of a change, also stop.

It's so drastic.

She looks wonderful whenever you see her. But I love. I love it because you haven't been, you know, you are from New Orleans, but you haven't been swallowed up by all the crap that comes with living in Los Angeles for decades.

Yes.

You know, I have to.

Very true.

My filter has to do. I have to. Do I do this? And then he. No, you know what? Great. Good for you. Good for you. So during this first answer, I want you to take up all the makeup because it's kind of freaking me out, to be honest.

Yeah. So it's just a little, like under eye concealer and a little lip gloss and like. Yeah, you just see me when I'm half dead. Like I've rolled out of bed. Stop.

It's not happening. It's like a quarter.

Quarter dead.

Yeah. Quarter dead. Yeah. Yeah.

Will you take me back? Before we go into your. Your fatherhood, I want to know a little bit about you as a kid before you got out here and did your family.

I was such a bad child.

Were you? Okay, that's where I want to start first.

I was the youngest of four, My sister and my oldest brother from my dad's first marriage. And then there's another brother and then me. We all got along great. But my sister was a senior in high school when I was born. My oldest brother, I think, was a freshman in high school. So we didn't really. We never grew up in the same house, but we were all very close. I was a terrible kid every Sunday during dinner. And my parents were not, like, strict. They were born in the 20s. My parents were born in 1928, but they were not strict people. My dad was not a yeller at all.

Yeah.

But every Sunday during dinner, I would do something that was just shitty, and my dad would chase me up the stairs. And I remember running up the stairs and I would hear one of my brothers counting. Five, four.

Oh, my God.

It was the time it. So that when I would slam the door. And then after a while, when I heard him, I would wait like an extra two seconds so that they wouldn't get the counting right. Slam it. But I would just do. I was annoying. I was a pain in the butt. I always would be a smart ass, which has continued to this day, except now I get paid for it. But then when I got to be a teenager, I was great. Always told my parents when I was coming home and I would never show up late. I wasn't like a big partier in high school. They didn't have to worry about that. I was responsible. Something changed. Just boom.

Yeah.

You were sort of the opposite of the normal trajectory.

Yes.

Yeah, I was going to say Boyd, I think that's your opposite in your family.

100. I was the flip of that. I was a pretty good kid. And then when the teen years hit, it was just a lot of pent up, probably insecurity, a lot of pent up late puberty and a lot of sarcasm, but I don't get paid for. But I still do.

Yeah, but. But it's alive and well in our house.

Yeah.

I found wrestling. Thank God. Because that's. I was like. I played sports as a kid, but I wasn't. I wasn't particularly great at any sport until wrestling. And then I found that. And that sort of gave me the whole launching pad from.

Yeah, the confidence, guitar, music.

Music, certainly. But sports wise, it was definitely wrestling and it was.

Were you a jaw Chris?

No. No, I've.

You weren't either. Okay, so neither one of y' all really were.

No. I've been in the sports industry for over three decades and everybody's like, well, how good an athlete were you? I was like, terrible. I was a horrible athlete. I stopped playing competitive sports after my freshman year of basketball. I stopped playing football after eighth grade, baseball after eighth grade. But I knew I always wanted to work in sports. I loved it. I was passionate about it. I. But I also did a little bit of everything. I could fit in with every group. I wasn't the cool kid, I wasn't a nerd, I wasn't a dork, I wasn't a musician, I wasn't a jock, but I was the president of our school because I felt like I blended in with just about everybody.

Did you go to a big school?

No, I went to an all boys school in suburban Cleveland, Ohio. 88 kids in our graduating class. But it was highly. I mean, the education level was insane.

Virtually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Where'd you go?

I went to a school called John Burroughs in St. Louis.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They have a lot of highly esteemed alumni and me and my brothers.

When's John Hamm coming up? Today. That. Oh, he's here.

And you have some big time athletes for out of Burrows, don't you? I feel like you're always pointing at this like there's some wide receiver.

Yeah, he's a running back. The defensive end for the Jaguars. I forgot his name. He's much younger than I am.

Which. Which one? Josh Heinz Allen.

No, his last name starts with an O. I think.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're thinking of their linebacker. Yeah. Luacan.

Boyd McDonnell 10:39That's who it is. Foyer went to bar.

He went to Yale.

Yeah, there's. They're good. I mean, and then they're. We're the McDonald brothers, too.

Then they're the McDonald brothers. And the cousins.

And the cousins. So we brought the average down a little bit, but overall, still fairly impressive. Alumni group.

Very good.

So with sports on your house, Chris, growing up, like, was your dad a big sports guy or your mom?

Both. Both. Enormous, enormous sports fans. So this is. You know, I grew up. I'm a little bit older than you guys.

Yeah.

Sports wasn't as readily available on TV as, obviously, or streaming devices as it is now, but I watched everything. In fact, I won a high school speaking contest called the Sherman Prize Speaking Contest, which was available to juniors and is like the speaking contest in the history of our school. I won it by admitting that I was a sportsaholic. So I went in front of the entire school and I said. I laid it out and I said, I am. I'm explaining to you that I am a sportsaholic. I wasn't making fun of, like, being an alcoholic, but I presented it in the way that people do.

That's great.

And I mentioned to them, and everybody knew it. So I graduated, what, 35 years ago from high school.

Yeah.

And if you were to have asked people back then, what would Chris Rose be doing? Is it. Is it. They knew it. They knew it back then. That's awesome. It is awesome. It's great.

It's there. So clearly from such a young age.

Do you think your high school friends. Boyd, would say that about you? I know your college friends wouldn't be surprised, but would your high school friends be surprised about your music career?

I don't think my high school friends would say that because I didn't really get into music in a meaningful way. I mean, I played music from when I was a kid, but I was taking piano lessons and stuff that I wasn't really wearing front and center, you know, College. Yes. They would say. This makes sense, though. Yeah. I mean, it just took Again. I didn't go through puberty until I was 30, so everything happened later for me.

And Paige, So thankful for it.

She is really, really lucky. She's really lucky.

Oh, boy. It's going in a different direction than I anticipated.

I told you.

I warned you, Paige. This could get. You know, Chris could have given you just a very nice. A very nice conversation. You get me in this mix.

I wanted this. I wanted to do time. I was in the mood for this. Chris, what do you do after high school? You go to college in the Midwest?

I did. I started out at the University of Michigan, and I was there. I started the summer before your freshman year, which these days is not that uncommon. Back then, it was simply to keep the campus active and so that they could rake in more money from out of out of state kids. So it was like summer camp. It was a blast. I loved it. And then the regular school year started, and I had a girlfriend back in Cleveland, and so I missed her. And one thing led to another, and I transferred from Michigan to Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, which is a very good school. It's not Michigan, but it's a very good school. And I was there for three years, graduated on time, helped kind of run the student radio station. They weren't broadcasting sports on radio before I got there. I changed that the first week.

I was like, you knew going in you wanted that. Like, you. You developed that. You had the vision for that. Oh, that's remarkable. You're 19 years old.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I would, you know, I went to the sports information director, whose job it is to be the liaison between all of the athletic teams there and the media. And I explained him what I wanted to do. And he was a young guy, and he was very supportive. He was like, let's see what we can do. And so now, today, they still broadcast football, basketball, men's and women's. They do hockey, they do baseball. I don't know if they do a few more, but it's great. It's. It's a big thing that I wanted to do during my college career, and they still do it today.

And did you not want to go into radio or did you really. You wanted to be on tv?

I didn't know until. I had a few internships throughout college, including one in between my junior and senior year. I did nine weeks at CNN in Atlanta.

Yeah, Boyd might have been there. Oh, no, you were ahead of Boyd by a couple years. You. Boyd was in Atlanta after college.

It was great. I Learned more in 9 weeks there than most of my friends who were communications majors. I was an English journalism guy, and it was fantastic. One day, oh, boy. There was a Sunday morning very early, where I took a bunch of highlight tapes that had been used the night before on CNN sports, and I wrote my own scripts, and I went into the makeup room and I had them do me do makeup. And I wore my Suit. And I hopped up on the CNN International set when there was nobody on there, and I recorded a fake broadcast that I was then going to use as my resume tape. So our intern coordinator, a guy named Larry Selfin, who was in his mid-20s, he brought me in the next day and he goes, did you hop up on the CNN International desk, do a resume tape? I was like, yeah. He goes, dude, you could get fired for that. He goes, we're not going to, because we didn't expect anybody to do that. So we didn't even warn you about doing it because you got some serious balls to do it. But don't do it again. I was like, okay, okay. I'm so sorry about that. So I. I took a risk, and I wish I had still had that tape somewhere. I have no idea where it is.

We do, too.

That would be gold.

Oh, I love that you did the makeup, too. It's like me today.

Yeah. Yeah. Except, Paige, you probably applied your own. Not me. Not 21 year old Chris Rose. I sat in the makeup chair. I was like, yeah, it looks good.

Yeah. A little more bronzer, guys.

A little bit more, please, can somebody feed me grape?

I'm doing that.

Yeah.

So then do you get a broadcasting job right out of college? No. Okay, you put in your dues.

First job. A week after graduating, I was running studio camera for the ABC affiliate in Cincinnati, Ohio, part time for $4.85, less than 30 hours a week. But I was in the building and I was talking to people who were on air, and I was going out on sports shoots on my own time. I said, can I tag along? And they were like, yeah, drive your own car. Show up wherever you want. We'll show you what's going on. And I started doing resume tapes there. I eventually got a. A few months later, the Fox affiliate WXIX was starting local news, and I went over there, I became a production assistant, and a week later, I got hired as a weekend sports producer. Kevin Frazier, who is one of the co hosts of Entertainment Tonight, was our weekend sports guy. And he's one of my mentors in the business. And he was like, dude, we got to get you out of town. And so you got to be hopping up there every week doing new resume tapes. And eventually, after two and a half years, I mean, I would send it out to cities I didn't even know were part of the continental United States, like Hickory, North Carolina. There were cities in Florida and Texas. I was like, are we sure these are real places?

And.

And I kept Getting rejected, you know, one after another. And I remember calling one news director in one of these places, and I said, can you give me some reason as to why I wasn't hired? Like, so that maybe I can improve on something? The guy goes, listen, dude, you were just as good as the person I hired. I can't tell you what it is. It's like, why do you like this flavor ice cream this day and another flavor the next?

Yeah.

I said, I wish I could give you something. So I was like, oh, that's kind of disheartening. You Goes, well, just plug it away.

Yeah. So those are the markets that Boyd was calling on in his sales job before he launched into trying to Good.

Old Hickory, North Carolina. I never, never went there, but I believe that it is. It's not a true DMA. There are a couple people watching TVs there, so.

Yeah, but you did that. You had that same philosophy, Boyd. I felt like, just get there. Like getting the job at the music label while you were in the band. Just be around the people.

Just get in the door. Get in the door and start being around people who are smart and the mentor. The value of a good mentor, Kevin. I mean, I have a couple. One really, really meaningful mentor who is one of my closest friends. And the impact on your life and your trajectory is seismic. I mean, it just. Things just wouldn't have happened in remotely the same way without that person being able to say, yeah, like, dude, we got to get you out of here. My mentor at Sony, when I worked there in syndication and traveled to all these towns, was my boss, while I was working for him, was actively trying to get me out the door. We had a sales meeting where everyone comes in from out of town. I can't remember if I was living in LA at the time or if I was, if I also came into LA and I had done some skit or song or something that he loved. We were making little videos, my brother and buddies and I, and he loved them and thought they were hilarious. And so he got me an audition at Mad tv during day two of the sales meeting. He just said, get out of here. And I went and, like, borrowed a guitar from somebody and didn't impress anybody at the audition, but it didn't matter because it's just such a cool, pure and honest. I want what's. I want you to do what you need to do. I don't care if you're here. I can see that you're not supposed to be at WXIX as a PA or you know, weekend sports producer. You're supposed to be on air, so let's get you there.

Yeah, well, that's a big deal. And I think it's important now we are where we are in terms of age and work history, pedigree. Yeah. It's important to return that favor. People are afraid to lose. I don't want to lose that person. They're so good for what we do. No, no, no. You should be building them up and kicking them out the door. Right. That is our job. I love it when young people get another opportunity. It might hurt you and what you do in the short term because you have to teach somebody else or find somebody. And sometimes you have to go through a few failures in order to find the right person that can finally fill their shoes. I loved it when I worked at MLB Network. There were several times over, I would say a three or four year time where we would lose our producer of our show. People are like, why are you guys keep losing producers? I looked at that as a positive and a reflection on how good we were. Because that meant that other people wanted to use people that you were helping develop.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think it's great.

Yeah. Do you come across younger people, men or women, who want to take the same path that you have or into podcasting or the new spaces that you've gone into since everything's changed in the last 25 years since you've been doing.

But it's a little harder because the tack that I took, although it still makes sense for some, isn't the best way to do it these days. So I can't put myself in the shoes of a 23 year old who's looking for it. I give them some suggestions in terms of, you know, I think that people who want to be in front of a microphone, they should be podcasting at an early age as they can.

Yeah.

And people go, well, what if nobody listens? That doesn't matter. It's not about, you need to sit down in front of a microphone, get comfortable with finding your voice. And I'm not talking about what we hear. Talking about what makes you tick, what makes you interesting in front of a camera and a microphone, how to interview people, how to listen to people. I always ask classes. I speak to college classes several times a year. I said, what do you think is the most important part of your body when you're interviewing? And a lot of people say, well, your mouth, obviously. And then they go, your eyes, are they. And finally about five or six answers in they go, your Ears. And I was like, bingo. Yeah, that's the one. Because you have no idea which way an interview is going to go because you're interviewing another human being. And if you're not listening, you are going to miss the opportunity of a lifetime to ask a follow up question that can maybe get you with this answer that is going to be like, whoa, yes. Yeah.

And I don't think it's something that's told a lot because there's so much content and noise. We're trying to take it all in and have our point of view and, you know, have standout content. And I think it's really just having a point of view and finding your own way to be meaningful and like have substance. There's so much still stuff that I just want to be like. It doesn't fill up any meaning, it's just stuff. That's what we were talking about.

Can you repeat that? I wasn't listening.

I. I also tuned out in the middle of that.

Boyd might have actually tuned out. We were talking about that with music because of all the musicians on Instagram. And Boyd has a friend who he met through Instagram who's a brilliant, talented musician, Tom, and we love him. And, and we were talking about, well, Boyd, you can say your point of view about being on Instagram and how different it is now. You have to. Or you can find your voice as a musician and I don't know, you get an audience cutting your teeth.

It's the same, same idea. You just have to cut your teeth. For us it was start playing in bands. That was, for me it was just get into a band, start rehearsing, start playing gigs to two people, to 20 people, to 500 people. It didn't matter. And that, that wasn't a linear progression. It could happen at any point. You get a gig and they're like 10 people there and you just have to learn how to play together and learn how to become a musician and learn how to read the room and all the things that you would do in an interview too is just play off of what you're getting. But now it's funny, I was talking with one of my closest buddies who I did played music with and played in bands with Ed for many years, all the way through college and after. And we are on Instagram just firing each other cool little music snippets. And I sent him a guy that I found that does really quirky short. It's all super short, obviously. It's like. But his songs are on Instagram at least are like 20 seconds, 30 seconds long. And he said, God, I wish that, man, we would have done well with this, like, because we loved the little snippets. It's easy to create in some ways. You think it's easier to create lots of little short things and just be weird and have fun. And I said, yes, this, like, would have been perfect for us, but it's. It's an entirely different animal. Like Tom, my friend, he will write, produce, perform, video. All of it is a visual medium. So you have to find your voice there too, and what you're trying to do. And he'll do an incredible 25 second, 30 second video in a day, including an original song. Singing it, playing it, he plays all the instruments. That's not easy.

And it looks easy. It looks so fun. It's just like he makes it look different, you know?

Right. And so you're like, oh, God, sit down and try to write a song that people are gonna, A, think is musically worthwhile and B, your comedy is meaningful on any level. It's so hard.

Right?

Yeah. And be original anyway. So, yeah, I think for 23 year olds, for me too. And I try to mentor a lot. And anyone that reaches out, I will take a zoom. I'll do whatever at any moment. Because those are so important. When you. Even if it's just like, oh, God, I have a zoom with this guy next week. That gives you some momentum when you're lost and you're 25 years old and you're like, even if the zoom is just a conversation and I always leave it open, just call me back or hit me anytime. Nobody ever really does, but that might be on me.

Sometimes they do. Eilee, the girls have a friend who is an aspiring musician in high school. Yeah, but that's to talk to high schoolers. And all of our kids are of that age. Miles is the youngest of our five kids between us. But it's so great to be around.

And we do have a. A joint family now. Chris was mentioned. We're neighbors.

Yeah.

Now we consider it. It's sort of like sister wives, but it's brother husbands.

I'm so sorry, Michelle. I'm sure Michelle is going to listen to this and be like, Michelle, I mean, like Paige, control your guests.

Well, she has no idea where I am right now, nor gives a. So the odds of her listening to this are missing. Sorry, sorry. Can I tell you this? She has heard all this for basically 30 years now.

Can we go back to that? I want to go to Michelle and the boys, so 19. Yeah, let's go to that. So 1999 you got married.

Y' all met 97?

97.

No, we met in 95 in Reno. I finally got that on air job in Reno, Nevada.

Okay.

I had been living in Cincinnati for three years and I was so excited. I fly out there, I didn't know a soul, I didn't know anybody. And I got there, I was like, great. Like, what are we driving to Vegas tonight? What is that, an hour? They're like, hey, it's seven and a half hour drive. It's at the other end of the state. I was like, what? I had no idea what was going on. But I ended up meeting Michelle because her sister Denise and I worked at the same television station. News4KRNV, Reno, Nevada. Sunbeam.

Sunbeam.

She worked in Master Control, which for people that aren't television people, that's the area where they run the shows, they hit the buttons and then we run the commercials and all sorts of stuff. So she asked me one day, she goes, are you single? I'd been out there a month maybe. I was like, oh, God. She goes, oh, it's not for me, it's for my sister. Now listen, I love Denise, I love my sister in law. We are not compatible as far as that. So she said, it's my sister. And she showed me a picture. I was like, oh, wow, she's very cute. We ended up meeting up in a big group after a Friday night high school football show that I did. I was walking into a bar called Chewy and Jugs. And I turned to my buddy Kevin Mahan, who's one of our videographer. I'm still friends with him to this day. And I turned him and I was like, God, I hope that's her. And it was her. We sat down, we hit it off, and there you go. She went on one date the rest of her life with a guy on that was on a Friday. She had a date on Sunday because she wanted to go see the show Splash. So took her out. That was it.

I was.

See ya. Beat it.

Can we beat it? Loser on. I hope that's her. That is so sweet. I feel like you should just write that on a card for one day. Like, I hope that's her and that's your whole life. You do. You have a very loving. Yes, I love the way you guys communicate.

And that is poured over to our boys, which I am thankful for. Yes, Brady. He should be hired by Hallmark. He could write cards. Both he and Josh have A very sensitive side to them. They're very sweet, very Christmas.

Was your dad affectionate with you?

No.

Like, how did this. Where did this come from to you?

It's a great question.

Thank you.

Because my. My. Both my parents, they were born three weeks apart in 1928, so. Right before the Great Depression.

Yeah.

And that was a totally different time in our country. Like. Yeah, they just didn't. They didn't hug it out, bitch. Like, that's not what happened. I always. I remember this. I kissed my dad on his forehead every night before I went to bed. And I've always been a sensitive person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't know where that comes from because my dad was extremely practical and he was loving from the standpoint of. I. I think whatever mistakes he might have made in his first marriage and with his two older children in terms of maybe not being as available as he wanted to be because of work, he tried to make sure that he could be with us, and he worked. My dad worked his ass off, was highly successful, but he always made sure that we knew that he wanted to be places and wanted to be there. If it just meant sitting around on a Sunday and watching five football games together in a golf tournament and not saying anything, that that was good enough. Just being together was. Was really good.

That is. Look, it's hard to. In some ways, but to be able to have a. Like a second shot at raising kids, for sure. With that much life perspective. I mean, of course, we look back now and say, oh, man, I wish that I had thrown the phone in the trash when they were two and I was putting them to bed. You know, things like that.

Yeah. When my dad died, at his funeral, I told my sister and my oldest brother, I thanked them because whatever mistakes he might have made and I don't know a lot of detail when you're the youngest, you just don't. To this day, I don't even know.

Yeah.

And now my sister's gone. Unfortunately, she passed away, so I can't talk to her about it. And my oldest brother, you know, we've got a great relationship. We just haven't really spent a lot of time talking about that sort of stuff. I just don't know it. Maybe it's because I don't want to know. I don't know.

Yeah. Or you just haven't had the right opportunity. And when it comes, you will be ready for that conversation. How did you show up for your boys? Like, were they. Yeah. I want to hear about how you showed up. And if they are sensitive like you. If you, if they have that from the beginning, like, from this, from the jump.

So Josh is our older one. He'll be 25 in November, November 1st. If you've been following along, yes. He is the highly emotional roller coaster of the two, which is great because he keeps you on your toes. There's a lot of highs and there's some lows. And Brady is this. He is. For those of you that are audio only, I am flatlining.

Even. Even.

He is as even keel as it gets. He just, you know, I look at him, I'm like, dude, are you with me? You still with me? It was always important for me, and maybe it's out of being selfish to not miss anything now because of my work. And earlier in my career, I traveled extensively. One year I was gone 180 days W. 180. And I turned down jobs, good jobs. And it's probably cost me a bit in my career because I needed to be here. I just did. There were times where, you know, Josh was going through a few things, and I knew I had to be home. I've left jobs. I told my bosses, I said, I gotta go home. I said, yeah, I hope you understand. And most of the time they have. But there are also times where it's cost me opportunities, and I don't regret it, because you only have one chance to be a parent at that specific time, and you don't know if you miss that time when your kid needs you the most. If you say, well, I'll get to it Tuesday when I get home.

Right.

Being Thursday. And you got to get home. I have had to get home. Yeah. You don't know if that's the day where you could have prevented something from going the wrong direction.

Yeah, yeah. And just offered your presence. I think, as a father, like, in acknowledging and celebrating dad energy, there's nothing like a dad being there. And most of my show, I mean, most of our listeners are women, and my whole career is about women and the truth of women's lives. But there's just something about having that male presence and stability and sturdiness in your home that I think is so powerful, which is what we're celebrating. And, Boyd, you have that same experience of being present. I feel like because your dad wasn't physically in the house, he traveled for work.

Yeah, I, I, My dad traveled a lot. He was gone most weeks. He would leave Monday morning, get back, like, Thursday night. And he was very affectionate, very encouraging, very available to me if I needed him. But it just became sort of life like my mom raised us and dad would come in on the weekends and we would go to breakfast or you know, whatever. When the kids were maybe five or six, it was when my dad died and I realized I don't want to have that be the trajectory for me. And it all sort of dovetailed at the right time where I started working for myself, which opened up everything. And I love it. I don't miss much. I mean, yes, sometimes here and there, but it's offered me so much opportunity to be a part of their lives. And I think post Covid and with everybody kind of being home, that was such a silver lining too for I would. I'd have to imagine a lot of families. But I know for ours of just at least from Paiges my perspective, the kids may say that we're up in their too much, but I'm like, this is great. Like, let's hang. You have to hang out with me now. But I do think it's. It's been between that and then just running my own career and running my own business, there's nothing more important to me than being around, especially with how fast it's all just flying by, you know, I think that's the main difference between me and my dad. I think he was definitely very affectionate and passed that along. And I think raising boys, I have two brothers, it's important. And it's hard sometimes maybe to especially with that generation, to sort of know that this is important. Like, my dad hugged and kissed us all the time. I remember trying to shake his hand in front of my friends and he like swatted my hand out of the way. I was getting ready to go on this week long camping trip or something, and my buddies were like shaking their dad's hands. I was like, don't shake my hand. Yeah, he had nothing to do with that. He was like, no, I love that.

I love. Yeah, I'm the same way. And our boys, they don't like being hugs.

Yeah, well, they really. Chris, you should see the kids try to wiggle out of Boyd's hugs. Like everybody in the family. Boyd can be a little. Hey, yeah.

Deal with it.

Yeah.

Well, you know, and I get it. Like with spouses, you know, like, I hug Michelle, I constantly hug her, and I can feel her literally pulling away. I was like, you have an appointment to get to what's going on here? Can't you just like, it's just a couple extra seconds here. Yeah. You know, it's not gonna lead to anything. I'm not trying that sort of stuff. Yeah, it's not on the calendar.

Yeah, but you never know.

There is a vulnerability. I understand, Paige. I get it. But I think we lead the same life.

Yeah. So maybe you and I should just meet for hugs several times a week and drive right past us, and we could just share and embrace.

Yeah, that's what should be happening. And then we'll model that to the children.

Yeah, the next generation. Next generation.

Better yet, we're going to commission somebody to build a statue for each of us. It'll be the hugging dads, and we'll each have one in our yards.

I was thinking oil painting or something, but a statue is better. It's more permanent.

Statues are way better. And. But it's got to be. It can't be so heavy that you can't move it, because God forbid, if you got to move, you know, once you're.

Yeah, no, we need to take house. You got to take it with not leaving that. Yeah, Right.

So can we fast forward, guys, another question?

Yes.

Okay.

To where we're put. To where we're playing statues. Yeah.

One in each front yard. We already. We already covered.

You're not listening material type.

What do we need to.

Ears. Age ears.

Come on.

I want to hear about from you first, Chris, about when your kids get involved in sports. And at this point, you know a ton about sports. Did you coach? How? Did you say something? Not say something? You and I have talked about this a little bit on our walks in the front yard. I'm interested in youth sports. What's happening in our culture? What's your take on it? Because you've been on the front lines of sports for years, and how do we as parents make the most of it and the best of it without going crazy over it? It's already a crazy culture. So I'm interested in your take on it.

It's. This is such an easy and complex answer at the same time. I did coach both kids teams, and for the most part, I thought I did a good job of the nurturing side and the emotional, developmental side of what sports gives you. And whether or not you're a sports fan, you might say, oh, my God. Our society puts too much emphasis on sports. And even though this is what I do for a living, I would agree with it. But I think that kids sports are so important on so many levels because it teaches you the importance of working together to understand that there are differences in abilities, in whatever it is that you do. And. Well, how do we deal with that, how do you deal with the kid who you can tell is stud but has to rely on the kid who's not good in order for us to all get to the same place that we want to go eventually? How do we deal with that? Yeah, and I think that that sort of stuff is really, really important. As a coach, I always thought the two most important things were obviously, to teach kids that it is fun, but there's times to work, there's times to be serious, there's times to be silly, like you have to figure out what those parameters are.

Yeah.

But at the same time, you don't ever want to be the coach who makes a kid stop playing the sport. And I don't think I was ever that coach. I didn't want to make a kid hate the sport or hate their time so much that they wanted to go find something else. Brady graduated high school a year ago, so he just finished his freshman year of college, and he played baseball from age four all the way till he was done with high school. And he was a good player, but it was so fun to watch him play against kids that I coached. And they would come over and they'd be like, hey, Chris, how you doing? I'd be like, oh, my God, you're like a man now. And they would talk to me about how much fun they had when they were younger and playing sports. And I'll give you one. For instance, there was, I think the kids were 9, and so they were playing kid pitch. It's one of the first years of kid. The second year of kid pitch. And we're in a game for baseball, and it's a timed game. At that point we have to stop. And then they go last hitter. Well, we are in a tie game, and it's second and third for the other team, and the kid is up. We could have walked him and we would have ended in a tie. And I walked out to our pitcher, a kid named Ryan Bird or Ryan Sauceman. I said, rye, don't walk him. I say, you try and strike him out or get him to hit it to one of your teammates. You make him hit the ball. You're going to do it and you're going to do great. And he gave up the game winning hit, and he's crying. And we always had a team meeting afterward. And I said, listen, it stinks that we lost, but we're going to be okay. Everything's going to be fine. And I said, parents, probably some of you are wondering why the heck didn't we Just walk the kid and we would have gotten the tie and that's good enough. I said, because next time I want Ryan to be able to have that experience so he knows that I'm going to get him out. And I know what it feels like to not have it work out and I'm not afraid of that. But next time I know I'll have the confidence to beat him. I said, think of how lucky he was, how few times we have as 9 or 10 year olds an opportunity to play with a game on the line where it's not going to matter.

Right.

Nobody's going to care after this because we're all going to go get snacks and feel good and rest. Your day is going to be great. But to have that experience, you can't replicate that anywhere else. No. And so they all went, ah, we get it.

Yeah.

So totally.

That's great.

Yeah.

And so I love that I would.

Say one or two other things before we move on. Number one, if you're a parent, whether it's as a coach or just a parent watching your kids, don't ever talk to the referees of the umpire. Don't do it. Yeah, it's stupid. They're not going to change. They're not going to bumping and reffing nine, 10 or 15 year old games. Like, yeah, if they were great, they'd be doing the major leagues or the NBA or. Right? Yeah. And even those people get hounded. But don't bother them. It doesn't help your kid. We used to have a guy in high school whom I'm a good friend with and I like him a lot. When his kid would pitch, he would always be chirping at the umpire and I turn to him and I'd say, do you think this is helping?

Right.

You really think this is helping? And it wouldn't. So let's stop.

Yeah.

In a sport like baseball in particular, where the best hitters in the history of the sport are only successful 3 out of 10 times, 30%, it's okay if your kid goes over 4 on the day, it's fine. Yeah, let it be you. You don't have to talk about every at bat. They're going to figure it out. They will figure it out. And lastly, support everybody on the team.

Yeah.

I think most parents have gotten that clue. Yeah. But it's not always just about your kid. It's just not, you know, so when your kid is pitching and there's an error behind them. Come on guys, let's go, let's pick it up on defense. Right. Once again, I would walk over to the parent and be like, do you think he tried to make a mistake?

Yes.

Or how about this?

Yes.

How about this? When your kid gives up a homer, do I sit there and yell at your kid because he gave up a homer?

Yeah.

Nope. Because it happens. So let's just let them play. Let them enjoy. Let them deal with the successes and failures of it. And if they got questions or they want to talk to you about stuff, then be there for them. Awesome. Be there. Don't drive the discussion. Be a support system.

Yeah. That is like me chirping in Boyd's ear at the baseball field or in the basketball court now, because Miles is sport is basketball. To remember that it's a journey. Like, it's developmental. Like, at all of this, the perspective that gets so warped is that it's a fixed outcome. Like, we're doing this to win. We're doing this to learn. We're doing this to grow. But it's really hard in our culture where it's so the stakes are so high, where high school feels like college now and college feels like professional. It's like everything is so intense so quickly and so young. It's hard to remember that. You have to actively choose to remember that.

Yeah, but what do you want Miles to get out of it? I mean, do you think Miles is going to play? Let's do it easiest to hardest. Is he going to make the NBA?

50.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Thank God. Thank God we finally got it out of him and trying this for years and on this show, this.

Anyway, you heard it here first. I'll meet you there.

Okay, I'll meet. We heard it right here, finally, at 50. 50. I'll take a coin flip. What are the odds of him playing at, like, North Carolina or Duke?

49.

Right. So you just keep going. Right. You want him to have an amazing.

I want him to have fun. I want to be able to play. Play in high school and have fun, do the thing that he loves doing.

And did he do it this first? His first year?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's doing great.

So let's build off of that. And by the way, if he keeps working out like a madman that he is and sipping 18 protein shakes a.

Day, you know, we will not be able to afford the gas to get him there.

Doing the Smith machine, you know, where he really builds up all those muscles with his old man, it's great.

But was your house. Meet Hetty. Did your boys go through what Miles and Boyd are doing right now? Protein shakes.

Oh, well, Brady's right in the thick of that. Are you kidding me? Yeah, he's. Where do you think he is right now? Yeah, gym. But when he goes, he goes for three hours.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

He's insane. He's.

You're living it, too.

Yeah, he's really. He takes it all in.

I was going to ask you a little more on youth sports in general. I mean, obviously growing up, when we grew up, maybe it was more competitive and more intense out here then, too, but it wasn't like that growing up. It was like, try this, do this, do this. And then when you get to high school is when you actually. The clock starts with anything. Nothing was intense in any way for me until high school. And then. And even then, it was like, okay, I'll try football. No, I don't like football. Okay, I'll do this. And then once I sort of locked in, then. Then it became much more of an intention. I'm going to be good at this. I'm going to work at this. Now it's. It's year round from when they're 8 years old. We were. He was playing baseball year round and the boys were. I know. And whatever the sport is. And it almost forces you into picking one sport by the time that you're. Before high school. We were at a tournament over the weekend and we came out down in Irvine and at the adjacent gym, they had the 8th and 7th graders of like the absolute highest caliber from all over the country. It was some other league. And Miles knew, like, he was like, well, that's that. Blah, blah, blah. And he knew like 10 of their names. He's like, this is the number one eighth grader that. Guys, these are seventh graders. And miles. Miles estimated. He said, I think maybe 25% is the number we landed on. True seventh or eighth graders.

It was age wise.

Age wise, like where you would be. Yeah, it was insane. The game we were watching of seventh graders, the two big men were 6, 2, 200 pounds and had no joke, had mustaches. Like seventh grade. Like legit mustaches. Delts on the guards. At least they were 15 and playing in seventh grade, which is kind of what it is now. It certainly in basketball and I'm pretty sure across all sports where the reclassing is not. Not just happening once, maybe, but even twice. And it's just. I. I was shocked yesterday. It was. And I'm sure that there are. Some of the kids were actually the age that they say they are or the Grade, that they're in the appropriate grade or whatever. So I, I can't say. I, I didn't check birth certificates, but it just, the eye test was like. It's not even funny anymore. It's just like.

Yeah, I mean, listen, this isn't, this isn't anything new. This has been going on for years and years and years and so it does sound like you should talk to your therapist about facial hair issues because I don't know if this. Because your late pubescent run or whatever it was, but it sounds like there's some issues you got to get past with facial hair there and with. For that I will support you. Thank you.

Maybe while we're hugging you can.

Yeah. You know, well, guide me. In fact, when we have the statue done, I won't even have my beard put on there. I'll do okay. Yeah. Just for us. I want you feeling well at least the one that belongs on your lawn, you know, for mine. And over here.

Okay, that's fair. To each his own.

Little more mainly.

But I will get back to this. About the playing multiple sports. It is the number one thing that drives me up a wall about youth sports is that, yeah, by the time you become a freshman, you damn well better have decided what sport you want to play. Why? Because you're going to fall behind. That's such bullshit. That is so ridiculous. And you know what? It's the system that has screwed the kids here because the coaches are like, well, if they're not here, little Johnny's playing football in the fall instead of fall baseball. Well, that's a real problem. So I work in both baseball and football and the NFL draft, there were 32 first round picks. And this is probably, I'm going to say three years ago and I don't exactly remember what class it was. 28 of the 32 that were selected in the first round were multi sport high school athletes. That means they played something else. Not just football. They ran track, they played hoops, they were baseball players. They talked about how it helped them develop other skill sets. It helped them rest their muscles from their predominant sport. And oh, by the way, they had fun. They loved it. I'm sure they were elite athletes, but they might not have been the best player in those other sports. So maybe they had to adjust to a different role. Maybe they were a role player in those sports instead of the stud that they became in football. Who knows? But we really have missed the boat on this one. Missed it by 50 yards. We. Yeah, Duck hooked it. It's just horrible. Really. It's terribly upsetting to me.

Yeah, I totally agree. Like, in our case, I think had it been more open all the way through, Miles probably would play more. I'm sure he would. He loves all kinds of stuff. And it's just sad that it just.

Well, it's the system. Yeah. To your point, Chris, it's like you're in the system and then you. It's hard to get out because you do feel like you want the best for your kid, like in the most average way. Not even in the type a psychotic parent way. You want your kid to have the opportunities, and so then it makes it hard to have the door still open if you're not playing by the rules of the system.

I know, and I'm saying that I understand it, what has transpired. I just hate it. I hate it for the kids, number one. And then I hate it that we as parents don't have the answer to it. Yes, we all. Our answer is all the same, which is, well, we don't want to lose our place in line, essentially, is the response.

Yes, that's exactly right way to look.

At it, I think.

Yeah, yeah. But we're in it together. And I think to hear your perspective being in sports, but also for us all to share the moment, I find that that's what people need to know, that they're not alone, especially the parents I know who are coming up. Their kids are, like, in fifth grade, and they can already see it. You know, I have parents who have ballerinas. There are gymnasts. Like, forget it. They're already like, you're old, like, if you haven't chosen. And that's fifth grade, you know? So I think it's something that we can at least share the honest truth and frustration of it, and that's part of it. And talking about it so that people don't feel like they're the only ones. What do you like doing as a family? Are there rituals that you enjoy the most? Like, what's. What's it all about for you right now in this moment in your fatherhood? So.

Well, I will say this, that I have carried from childhood to fatherhood something that I'm not. I wish it was more. I wish it was like I grew up. I told you earlier in this conversation with my dad, just sitting and watching games, and that was good enough for me. And now because, like, when we're done with this conversation, I will sit and watch baseball for the next seven hours. And I know for most people, they're like, oh, God, what the hell's the matter with that dude? It's my job, but it's also something I love doing with my kids.

Yeah.

And we'll sit there and we'll talk about our teams and, hey, this is going on. That's happening. But sports has been an incredible bond for my family. It's in our DNA. It's who we are. We used to plan vacations around the Browns schedule. We wouldn't go anywhere for winter break because the Browns were playing. Like, that's moronic. Especially if you think about where the Browns are today. When I was growing up, like, they were legitimately good. They were division five times in the 80s, people. So don't.

Mac and Biner, I mean, we didn't have a team to root for. I. Yeah, that away.

But. And you know, our kids, Josh and Brady, born in Los Angeles, they could have picked. They could have gone the easy way. Lakers, Dodgers, and had teams that were winning championships and easy to root for. But no, they. They wanted to follow. And all the Cleveland games were on in our house growing up, so that's who we're passionate about. We're taking a trip this summer to go see the Guardians play at Wrigley Field in Chicago.

Very cool.

Yeah. It'll be fun at. So it sounds ridiculous. And that's where I so applaud Michelle. She does not come from a sports family. Her dad was born in Paris, grew up in Brazil, didn't move to the United States till he was a late teenager. She didn't grow up with this sports background, so she has given up a lot of that side of her identity.

Yeah.

To sit and watch the Cavs get blown out by 40 points in a playoff game, that was hard.

That was a hard tool.

Yeah. But she sat there, she was. She felt. She was like, oh, my God, our kids are going to be horrible this week. That's what we do. And I know it sounds ridiculous for a lot of people because, you know, hey, we're going to go take a hike, which is awesome. Or we like to go camping or we like to travel and do this. That's not who we've been. We just like hanging out and being with each other. And I know it sounds a little silly and probably there is.

I think our life is very simple, too. Don't you, Boyd?

Absolutely.

What is your favorite thing is that, like, in our family right now, I mean, we don't. We don't do a lot, I think.

No, we do.

In a good way.

Yeah, absolutely. In a good Way I. It's how I would prefer it to be, because it is really just about hanging out. And that's. That's enough for me. I think our thing is going out for dinners. All my kids are extreme foodies. They love. Miles is a volume play, obviously, but the girls are really, really have sophisticated interest and curiosity. And Miles, too, around food. Like, let's. You know, we get sushi. Let's get something we've never had. That's. Miles is straight off the gates. Like, what haven't we had? What is this? Let's get this. So, like, we have tremendous joy and shared excitement around eating out. So, like, when we go on vacation, the line item you can look the dinners is like, that's the event of the day. You know, who gives a. About renting a boat? Like, let's go blow the thousand dollars on some kind of something. And God bless Paige there, too, in the way that Michelle is not from a sports family. Paige is the one at the table every time that, like, really just wants a baguette and some butter and maybe, like, a piece of cheese pizza.

Chris is from New Orleans.

She has.

It's one of those secret things about me. I mean, every human has so much paradox. It's a total mismatch. No one gets it. Like, I could eat a cheese quesadilla. Like, that's it.

That's it. Mimi wrote. Our daughter wrote Paige a.

A letter.

Yeah. It was a mother's day or your.

Birthday, I think, maybe.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And we're writing about what. What we love about Paige. And one of the things that she wrote was, we love your fear of flavor. And we were dying. And he was like, well, it's true. I mean. Yeah, we still love it. We still love it. So Paige endures all of it through just weird sushi items. The restaurants that we like to try that just have, you know, elaborate flavors. And Paige is like, do y' all have chicken tortilla soup? And I was like, just let her do it, guys. Just let her do it. Miles is like, I'll take two New York strips and the king crab legs. Like, Jesus Christ.

This guy.

This guy learned to order. I remember the first time he ordered a steak without. He just was like, it came around. And he must have been like, 11. He's like, I love the New York strip, medium rare, and I'll get the. With lump crab. I'm like, what? Everyone else.

Is anybody rolling on that? Yeah, my God.

I know.

It's so amazing. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Well, my. My takeaway with that is that it doesn't matter what it is. I think the joy is that when you're engaged with something that your kids can engage with, it's so inspiring, like to have young people like at your table and in your life and having.

On the couch watching sports, like it's, there's nothing better sharing space and enjoying who they are, you know, and how.

Fleeting it all is. I think that's something to. Well, that's be very present too. Yes. And that's a big part of our life right now when we see you and Michelle encouraging us because as our listeners know, because I've talked about this so much, our kids are, our daughters are leaving for college in three months. And so that's a big part of our life right now. But I'm sure that there are great things to come and lots to look forward to in family life. But in this moment, moment, everything feels particularly precious and a little bit emotional around here. As Gwyn and I like look across at each other in the kitchen, like fully misty eyed for no reason. I'm like, oh my gosh, is he gonna start crying? I'm gonna start crying right now and then we'll like, okay.

Very fragile.

Yeah.

We have to move more than I normally am. More than you even know me to be, Chris.

Well, I don't know if this will help or hurt, but I did grab a peek at what each of the boys wrote to Michelle in their oh yeah. Other stay cards.

Yeah.

And Brady wrote, I missed you every day at school.

Oh, I love that.

And I was like, oh boy, oh boy.

Yeah.

She's sitting there like, were you okay?

Yeah.

Were you okay?

I was okay.

He's fine. Like, he's good, he's good. Don't worry, honey, he's all right.

I think he's gonna be all right. He's.

I love that your heartfelt way of showing up has, has run through them like that's so beautiful that they're very heartfelt like you have been in like your fatherhood has been.

Yeah. I'm the SAP. And I will say this, that I haven't been tough enough on them. She is the one. And she's verbalized that to me. She's like, why am I always the asshole?

Yeah, somebody's got to be. Yeah.

Just want to be their friend. And I don't think that's 100% accurate, but I understand where she's coming from. Yes, I, I hear her on that. And I was like, sometimes you gotta wear it, kid. Take one for the team. Don't worry. Hey boys and I are gonna go hang out for a little while. Sit in the corner.

Appreciate you sharing. We'll catch you later.

Amazing. A dad move for sure. Chris and Boyd represent a dedicated, modern fatherhood. It's a kind of fatherhood that has evolved beyond the dad, swooping in for the glory moment beyond the dad just getting the playful moments, getting all the fun and the fanfare. Chris and Boyd are living a fatherhood that includes an engagement with the mundane, a gratitude for the ordinary, a celebration of the simple moments that define family bonding and the privilege it is to be present for a child's emotional life. I love promoting this kind of fatherhood and I love celebrating men who show up as heart centered guides and mentors. Men who care deeply about young people and will stand up to advocate for their future. Whether that's on a baseball field, in a boardroom, in the studio, or in the kitchen at home where no one is noticing. Thank you. Thank you for this joyful hour. Chris and Boyd, thank you for who you are to the Rose family and the McDonnell family, who you are in the community and who you are in the world. Thank you for the sacrifices you've made and the devotion and focus you bring to the people you love and to the work that matters most to you. Thank you to all the dads out there who make us laugh, keep us safe, inspire us, provide for us, bring the fun and of course, most importantly, love us in only the way dads can. Okay y' all, that's it for today. I will meet you here again soon. Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening. I'm so grateful we get to share life in this way. As always, full show notes are available@Paigenolan.com podcast there you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways and any resources mentioned in our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review. You can do that by visiting Paigenolan.com love your reviews, really do help people to discover the show. And if you know someone specifically who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share. I'll meet you there with your friends. Lastly, if you have any questions or comments, or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meetme thereagenolan.com I would love to hear from you. Thank you to the team that makes this show possible. Podcast Production and Marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonnell. Cover photography by Innis Casey. Okay, y' all, that's it for now. I'll meet you there again soon.