11: All the Wiser: Kimi Culp's Exploration of Life's Unthinkable Moments

I knew in all my years of interviewing people who did I remember and who stuck with me. And when I started to think about that and see the connect the dots, yes, it was people who had faced incredible adversity and had been able to get through it and sort of synthesize, articulate how they had been changed their wisdom. The ones that stuck, stuck out to me had those common factors.

Hi, I'm Paige Nolan. Welcome to I'll Meet yout There. A place where heart centered conversations are everything. Living what matters is the truest thing and sharing the journey is the best. Hi everyone and welcome back. Have you ever had that moment when you run into a person you haven't seen in a while and the person seems lighter? There's a twinkle in the eye and upbeat energy in the voice. Something is different in the best way. You can't always put your finger on it, but there's a quality of contentedness and you just know that person is happier than he or she was the last time y'all ran into each other. My guest today, Kimi Culp, is content in her life. She's happier than she was the first day I met her. She has that thing that's just lighter. She's different in the best way. I've had the privilege of witnessing Kimi's journey up close. And as she describes it in this episode, it has been a journey moving from a fast paced, stressful achieve at high cost lifestyle to the life she lives now. A life rooted in gratitude and intentionally built upon the values she holds the most dear. When I met Kimi years ago, she had stepped away from a successful career in journalism, traveling the world, conducting thousands of interviews for outlets such as NBC, ABC and the Oprah Winfrey Network. And at the time, she had recently produced a feature length documentary on former NFL football player Steve Gleason, a documentary entitled Gleason that premiered at Sundance and was shortlisted for the Academy Awards. At the time we connected, Kimi had three young children. She was super involved in their school activities. She had her hands in all kinds of civic outreach like she always does and she was social and moving at top speed all the time. She realized she couldn't sustain that pace. She wanted to slow down, but she wasn't sure she knew how. She was ready to step away from the entertainment business, but she wasn't ready to let go of storytelling. So we worked together to figure it out. Through some deep dive self examination, lots of brainstorming and fine tuning, her why Kimi landed on launching a Podcast entitled all the Wiser, a podcast show about the hope and possibility on the other side of pain. Kimi interviewed 100 guests, each of whom have endured truly incredible life experiences, from dramatic survival stories to facing death to unforgettable lessons in love and loss. And our guests wanted to share their story and ultimately their wisdom. With each episode of all the Wiser, Kimi donated $2,000 to a nonprofit, Making a Difference in the World. At the time I sat down with Kimi for this conversation, it had been about six months since the final episode of all the Wiser. The podcast had run for five years and changed Kimi forever. As y'all know, I'm curious about change, and I wanted to meet Kimi on the other side of that journey she took when she decided to reorganize her life and devote her whole heart to a creative project. We talk about her experience with self doubt, the mistakes she made, the reason she stuck with it, the memorable guests and the lessons she collected over those years. And ultimately, we talk about her wisdom. Enjoy this conversation with Kimi Colt. Okay, so I have a quote to frame our conversation, and I'm sure it's something that you've heard before because it's kind of everywhere and it goes. The longest journey you will ever take is the 18 inches from your head to your heart.

Oh, I haven't heard that.

Paige Nolan 4:16 - 5:16: Yeah, you'll see it pop up. It just comes up and, you know, places here and there. And it's often attributed to different people. I see it most often attributed to Thich Nhat Hanh, who's a Buddhist monk and died a couple years ago and has a bunch of books. And he's kind of like the grandfather of mindfulness and compassion. And I just love it because I think that is what I think of when I think of your journey and the spirit of the show, you know, I'll meet you there. It implies a journey, either that someone is on a journey because we all are, but also that someone's taken a journey that's meaningful, that kind of has led to some sort of alignment and some sort of truth around living what matters most. So I'm starting there to frame this conversation for our listeners because you of all people, I mean, I've met a lot of people in my life, in my work world, in my personal world, but when I think of your journey and when I think of you moving from an idea of frame of mind, the way you are living, you know, through the last, I don't know, I think I've known you for 10 years.

Yeah.

You know, so through that period of time to being one of the most heart centered people. Not that you weren't before, but just a full embodiment of what matters most to you. So that's where I'm oriented. That's where I'm pointing our listeners. That's where I want you to help us go there and take us there. So let's start with before all the wiser in this particular meaningful project that I think is a big focus of our conversation today. Just kind of where you were in your life and what was happening and what inspired you to get really interested in that journey.

Well, I have to start by credit where credit is due, Paige. We all meet guides in our life, right? Certainly. I met 100 and on the podcast that you and I birthed over a cup of coffee to some extent.

Yeah.

Thank you for that and thank you for sharing that beautiful, beautiful quote I've never heard. But you really were or have been and continue to be such a important influence and mentor and friend and guide in my life. So thank you for that. But to answer your question, you know, 10 years ago when we met, I mean, it's kind of crazy.

Yeah.

To even wrap my head around it based on where I sit today, which I guess part of is just getting older and wiser. But I was thinking about this very question about when we met. So I think 10 years ago we met. Right before I had my youngest Esti, and so I had a five year old and a three year old. I was building a house. I was partnered a short form content company where almost all of our filming was on the east coast. My side Hustle was a book that was about to be published and the publishing date was like, you know, six weeks after I gave birth. And that was how I rolled.

Yeah.

And I guarantee you I was also volunteering at the school, throwing the holiday party, going on the trips, and I just functioned that way. And there was, you know, a lot of good that came from all of those things. One of the lessons I learned and Edith Eager, who you and I talk all about that. I don't know how old she is now. 95 probably. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, she says, how do you spell love? And it's T I M E time. And I thought, well, I'm doing all the things and I'm showing up and I'm volunteering at the school and I'm throwing the event and I'm pursuing a career that I'm passionate about and I believe in. But it didn't leave a lot of time for the things that matter most. And it didn't leave a lot of time to be present and enjoy all the goodness and all of those different things. And I think I just kind of was trying to do it all and be it all. And there was a sense of, I think, kind of emptiness.

Paige Nolan 7:55

Yes.

And restlessness and maybe even sadness. And then that felt conflicted because I'm like, well, wait, I have all the things. I'm doing, all the right things. Right. And, you know, almost like a shame of why inside do I feel sort of empty and restless and periods of, I think, sadness.

Yeah. And I want to offer a word, too, for listeners who can resonate with that. You know, I think there's a sense of longing for something, and we don't know what it is. Especially when you have so much of the big, core, fundamental things. You're happily married, you had a beautiful house where you were hosting your neighbors and friends, and you have healthy children, and you have meaningful work. It's not like you didn't like your work. You know, you were doing things that kind of fit with your skill set. It's just the pace of life and that question of, is there something else? For me, that's a deeper truth.

That is beautifully put because, yes, that is the right descriptive sort of versus feeling sad. It was, I think, a longing. Right. For something more connected and meaningful. And. Yeah. So, I mean, just where I am today. And that, you know, only took me a decade.

It was less than that. I was. I was trying to think of when we first started working together, but. But that's why the quote is so beautiful, because it's a journey that we never stop taking. I just think what interests me about your story and what was so inspiring for me to witness is how you did it consciously. You know, and that's. The people who are listening are trying to do that consciously. And I know so many wonderful, amazing people, clients and friends, who are also doing it consciously. And that takes courage. You know, I remember sitting down with you, and it wasn't like the podcast was the first idea. It was like layers of how can I change my life? What are little things that I can do to bring me more in touch with what is truly important to me.

Wait, what do you mean by doing it consciously?

I think with awareness. Like, I think some people.

Like, I didn't stumble into it.

Yes, you didn't stumble into it. You went on an intentional quest to know more about yourself, to ask hard questions. You know, you Got in a relationship with me as a coach first, before we knew each other socially. And you sought all sorts of guidance, not just through our relationship, but reading and talking to other women who have, you know, I love an expert.

I love you.

You really do.

We've worked on that, too. You're like, yeah, just trust your intuition.

Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. So, I mean, an awareness, an intentionality, I think that that was very much how you went about that journey. And I think for the purposes of, like, getting into all the wiser, you did have a sort of calling to offer something, some sort of contribution. Yeah. So tell us about when you started to pull back on the spirit speed of your life.

Yeah.

And what that looked like to move into something that was a little bit more creative in your own pace.

Well, I had produced a film, a documentary film that was a big kind of ambitious nonfiction film. And that project ended. I was like, I'm going to take six months and sort of take some time to not work, which felt so foreign to me. Right. Like, always had a project, always had a thing. So I started falling in love with podcast, which I really hadn't listened to. And I was fine kind of creating the space, not working. And then one day, I just started crying at Old Navy. It was like 11 o'clock on a Tuesday.

Yeah, I've been there. Yeah.

What am I doing? Just kind of wandering around, and I'm like. I don't know how to explain it, but it was this moment where I don't even remember, but it was like, this moment where, like, I want to do something, but I didn't want to do it the way I had done it before. And the way I had done it before was what I just touched upon. It was like a lot of hustle and grinding and a million balls in the air. And that no longer felt good to me, and I wanted to move away from that. I also, Paige, didn't even believe that I was capable of that.

Yes.

I remember telling you, like, that's just how I am. That's just how I'm wired. I want to be more present. But I truly didn't think I was a person who could not work, who could do less. I just thought, I'm too restless. It's not even possible for me not to get this energy out. But I fell in love with podcasting, and I landed on this idea that I had spent my entire career in nonfiction storytelling and journalism. And my background, I had worked in big network and big media for Good Morning America and Oprah and My strong suit was to kind of sort of go into these situations, but I never had control. But I would go into a situation, have a really intimate, real, honest conversation.

Yeah.

Ask questions with somebody looking at me, who trusted me. Right. Who trusted me with their story and the way it works and network television or if you're working for, you know, ABC or NBC or Oprah or all these places I worked is you then take the footage and hand it off.

Yes.

And it's sliced and diced and there's some music splashed on it. And I wasn't a, you know, quote unquote reporter on air or anchor. So the spirit of the conversation, it never felt honored to me. Not only did it not feel true, but, like, I so often felt the best of it was lost.

Yes.

And there was so much wisdom and heart and depth, and I was really interested in having those conversations and, like, in their entirety and letting them breathe and learning from them. And I understood that high stakes stories, there was a reason and is a reason where Hollywood and, you know, true crime, all of these things, people are drawn to stories where the stakes are really high. But I was really interested in, like, the personal aspect of how people are changed and how they come out the other end of something and how their relationships change, how their spirituality changes. And I wanted to have those conversations.

Yeah. And I remember having that conversation with you around kind of the clickbait nature of media. And it's got even so much worse now with Instagram, because when you were in it, it was still on the television side. It wasn't like you were doing little bits and reels. Instagram yet.

Yeah.

And even when we first met, Instagram isn't what it is today.

Correct.

So all of that, I think, really stuck with you around the negative energy. And my experience of you talking about that time of your life was it was starting to catch up with you. You know, you were, like, holding on to the stress and you were looking for an outlet where you could still storytell, you could still use your experience, your professional experience that you had from journalism, but it was a much more complete, more authentic, like, positive experience for you. And then podcasting, I mean, you and I talked about it kind of casually, but you've actually had some early seeds planted with podcasting.

Oh, my grandmother.

Yes. Like, I didn't know that. Actually, we didn't even really talk about that until you were creating a website and you were like, actually, this is a cool part of the story. So will you tell our listeners about kind of your relationship with yes.

Okay. So my grandpa Tom was the voice of Cleveland. He was a radio host and he would read the news and play music and he was a disc jockey. Well, a storyteller, really.

Yeah.

And, you know, would play music and tell stories and talk about the news of the day in Cleveland. And I would go into the radio station and sit on his lap and, you know, he had. I'll tell you the story about the microphone in a second. And he would just chain smoke.

Yes.

The entire time. We have like a microphone. He had like a four year old and, you know, one arm, like a cigarette in the other hand, and he was just talking. And so, I mean, hard to say what influence that played, but you have to believe something for sure.

Seeds were planted.

Yeah. And then the night I think you know this story. Yeah, the night I decided to do a party at our house and launch the podcast and kind of to friends and family to let people know I was doing it and hopefully people would tune in. So we threw this big party and I had one of our first guests tell a live story on stage. And Katie Browning, who introduced us, one of my best friends in the world walks in and my mom found my grandfather's old microphone, like in an attic, and sent it to Katie and they put it in the middle of flowers, like a beautiful bouquet of flowers, and handed it to me, which I'll never forget.

So, so beautiful.

Yeah, so it's cool.

So when you first start doing the podcast, tell me what it was like to be on the microphone. Like, what was that journey for you? What were some of the barriers? What were some of early obstacles of can I do this? Is this working? I mean, it started very organically. You kind of honed in on the idea of the type of person you wanted to interview. Based on what you shared with us a few minutes ago, is like you've always been drawn to those emotional moments with people deeply connecting and finding the truth in a situation actually before the obstacles or barriers. Help us understand, like all the wiser, like coming to that. What did you envision it being about? And then what was it really about once you got in there and really started meeting these people and these guests?

I think if I go back, I knew, and it may have even been from a question you asked me in all my years of interviewing people who did I remember and who stuck with me. And when I started to think about that and see the connect the dots, yes, it was people who had faced incredible adversity and had been able to get through it and sort of synthesize, articulate how they had been, changed their wisdom. Like, those were the stories that really, really stuck with me. And I, you know, done hundreds, if not maybe even thousands of stories, because a lot of them, when you're doing, you know, morning shows, it's every day you're doing a new story. And the ones that stuck out to me had those common factors. And so the idea was, at first it was to find 50.

Yes. Oh, I remember this. Yeah.

And we had a charitable component. I really wanted to do something that had, like, an intersection of cause and story.

Yeah.

Because I just believed in that and thought it was an interesting and fresh way to, you know, not only support nonprofits financially, but use storytelling as an asset. Right. Yeah. It's one thing to hear about, oh, this charity does great work. It's another thing to really immerse yourself and go deep in somebody's experience, like whatever it is with addiction or with mental health or with cancer, and truly understand the heart of it. And then you hear, you know, about the people who are on the front lines of that very thing. So we got excited about that. I knew that the stories I was interested in telling these high stakes, dramatic stories, but doing it in a way that had a lot of heart and soul. And frankly, I mean, one of the things that was really confusing about it and I think would go under the category of obstacles, is a lot of people, you and I, not being two of them, don't want to go towards stories of weight.

Yeah.

And they're heavy subject matter. And I think most of the time we got there, but I wanted there to be, like, a sense of lightness and room for people to breathe and laugh and all of those things. So that was the idea. And you and I came up with the name, and it just sort of started to. Yeah. To go.

And I remember coming up with the name with you. I remember that particular session because. Because I think that idea of why does it matter for you, exploring these stories. Yes. You have the temperament to do that. You can stay very calm under pressure. You have the journalism background. You know how to guide a person through a story. You know how to extract, like, the moment, the critical moments from the story. But I always felt like the inspiration for you is on the other side of that hardship is a lesson. And the service part was so important to you. So I'm bringing that to light for people who are listening, because I think a lot of our listeners are curious about a creative project, and it doesn't have to be in this professional Way like you're launching a film or podcast. It could be that you're redoing your house. It could be that you're spending more time with an aging parent because you recognize the finite nature of their life. Or you could be sinking into some cause or a nonprofit just for your own sense of contribution. There's so many different ways that we kind of devote ourselves to something. But I think for me, that process of digging into that question with you was so inspiring. Because when you ask, okay, why does it matter? Okay, why does it matter? You know, and keep digging into that, you arrive and I felt like you arrived to the word of wisdom, which is why we got to all the wiser. Because for you it was about what is all this hardship for? This can't be for nothing. This has to be for something. And that's the thing that you can share and that helps other people, which for you is all. It's always about connection.

Yeah. And I think as far as like starting a new project, if people listening. Even though my background was in interviewing and storytelling, this was like very much beginner's mind. I had no idea anything about audio equipment. Because you work in television, there's somebody who understands sound, who understands lighting, who. And you know, everything like you sit down. So all this, I get it. I'm like in a closet.

Yeah.

You know, an 18 year old kid, I bought all of this like gear on random websites and he's trying to teach me. I'm not even great with the television remote. Even though I used to work in tv. Like it was a little bit like hot, messy, just figuring it all out. And I had never had my voice on camera. I was always behind the scenes. So I had never been up front. I mean, I'd certainly, as a producer, you're promoting what you're doing. But as far as like my voice or my sharing my personal story, that had never been in the cards.

Right.

So that, I mean, at first I used to like go through the transcript and like by year five, I'm like.

Ah, yeah, by year two.

That's true, that's true.

I'm not there yet. I'm still a little bit like, what did I sound like? But I'm way better than I was when I started and I haven't even done it a year yet. But I understand that hurdle. I mean that that's a great example.

Of an even hearing your voice.

Paige Nolan 22:19 - 22:35: And it can be any form of creative expression. You know, when I think of all the people with whom I've spoken On this podcast in the last year, everybody has some form of risk that they took when they put their creative expression out for somebody else to judge. Basically.

Yeah, yeah.

So you get the title. You're up against your ego, you're up against perfectionism and insecurity and all self doubt, all these things. What helps you? What is the thing that you sink into as you get better at your job or as you start to really love this project? You know, take a through. Like, when did you find that flow? Like, oh, I really, I can get over myself and really love this. Was that through a particular guest? Was that through just familiarity with the process? Just discipline, consistency, consistency.

I mean, doing it at three months versus five years in was a very different experience.

Yeah.

And I made a lot of mistakes, including, as you know, Paige and I may or may not have an intellectual crush on someone named BJ Miller, who you should Google and listen to his TED Talk. And listen to his TED Talk. He also happens to be really cute and flew to San Francisco to his house to do the interview in person and forgot to hit record. And it was like a two hour conversation. I mean, there was like dramatic pauses. And then for six months, beat myself up. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I thought, how could you? You know, just, you're not cut out for this. That's why you work with other people with budgets and who know what they're doing, you know, and I can't email him again. He's a big deal. My podcast is small. He's. You've got to go through his people. And then I think at some point I emailed him and they emailed back like 20 minutes later. I just said, I made a mistake and I don't have the audio. And they said, great, BJ's available next week, we'll do it on Zoom. So, I mean, that was year one, and I think I just grew more comfortable, more at ease, more myself, more confident. You and I talk a lot about spirituality and God and at some point, at a hundred percent, felt like a spiritual project to me. And the only way I would articulate that, or not the only way, but I maybe it's hard to explain, right? When something feels so personal and spiritual.

Yeah.

Is that I kind of let go and thought, like, let me ask the question that this person wants to answer. Like, so often I talk to people who had been through horrible things, who had lost a child, and just simply asking them to tell me about their child, to bring them to life. So instead of like Gripping. All the questions are spot on. And, you know, the recording is perfect, and I'm coming across as articulate and knowledgeable and knowing that my job was to show up and be deeply present and deeply prepared and that the rest would happen because I, you know, trusted that myself and the guests were there for a reason that would be of a higher service to somebody listening.

Yeah.

And once I started getting into that mindset, but I think the work became a lot less stressful because I was doing it with more ease, if that makes sense.

For sure.

Yeah.

I love what you said about that because you mentioned the beginner's mind earlier and that with what you just shared, it feels like the beginner's mind has an open heart.

Yeah.

You know, when your heart is open, you can get over any sense of doubt that I don't know enough or I'm not enough or I don't have the right experience. Because at the end of the day, when you're present and connected to the intention of what you're doing, which is something that you started doing, you even mentioned it. I remember you switching to really getting clear about setting an intention.

Yeah.

Before the conversation, which I always share this with people, like, even if it's going into a party, even if it's going into, like, a school event, or you're like, I don't. This is no big deal. I have to go to parents night, or I have to go to this staff meeting on Monday morning for my job. But when you bring an intention to it, it immediately gets your heart in it in a different way. And it invites what you describe as relaxing, letting go, knowing what it's really all about. Like, what it's all about is love and faith and hope. And, you know, it's about the big virtues.

What you very much taught me this. And before all the wiser and before doing the podcast, I did a fair amount of public speaking and some throughout, for sure. At least, like, one or two things a year. And you helped me with a lot of those talks or speeches. And you have to prepare. Right?

You have to.

Yes, yes. People have trusted you to tell a compelling story, to convey a message, or to entertain, whatever you know, their objective. But I wanted it to be perfect, and I wanted to find the perfect word in the image in the arc. And I just remember you saying, like, people just want real.

Yeah.

That's another way of explaining, like, the growth in the podcast that I think advanced first. I probably wanted something more perfect and polished. And as time went on, I got really comfortable and having it just be real.

Yeah.

Which oddly not, not oddly, is more compelling content.

Yeah. Isn't it crazy how it works like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's so interesting that you pick the most imperfect guests. I mean, your guests had these incredible. I love that word that you used in the all the wiser intro. Unthinkable, truly unthinkable things happen where you can't imagine. And so tell us about what it's like to sit down. What do you learn from these people you never would have sat down with? You never would have crossed paths with so many of your guests. Some of them you would have, but some of them, you know, they're just not in your orbit. And you sit down with them and you found that very human connection that kind of transcended any story. Race, class, ethnicity, difference in life history. Tell us about what that felt like.

To your point, I sat down with people who had been incarcerated, who had been living in prison for, you know, 20 years and who had been out six months because as young boys were in gang life or drunk driving accident. And their stories were beautiful. And they were so beautiful.

Yes.

Incredible. And talk about it like an arc right where they started versus where they are today, which was, you know, and those accounts, like, out being men of service and these just incredible lives. So, yeah, I wouldn't. In my, like, suburban LA mom life.

Yeah.

Those aren't the people that I would, you know, by chance, spend three hours talking about life with. I mean, the youngest person we talked to on the podcast was like. Like a first grader.

Yeah.

During COVID we did. And, you know, up to 95 and, you know, you name it, race, gender, religion, and most people, you find connections. Yeah. No matter how different your lives are, and you certainly, if you're, you know, paying attention, can learn something. And, yeah, it was really cool and deeply meaningful to be connected, to have the opportunity to meet that diversity and not just me, but really get to hear their story and have them trust me with sharing it.

Yeah. And I think this notion of really listening, you know, I feel like that's something that's missing in our culture. It's very fast. We're on the go, we're looking at our phone, we're checking messages, we're checking news cycles. This is what I found from doing a podcast. And even if you're not doing a podcast, just being present in a conversation, to actually sit down and give someone your full attention, your whole attention, and the value that that person feels in sharing the story that Was so moving. You would do these interviews with people who were, like you said, like on the brink of something very new or very difficult. They had a lot of trauma in their life and I think by you opening your heart and fully paying attention to them, the process itself was so healing. Regardless if you ever published it as a podcast or not. It's healing for you knowing that your perfect story, which isn't perfect, but, you know, you letting more in of the total story of your life.

Yeah.

And feeling more honest about that through them sharing theirs. It's just this beautiful exchange that I think we could all be inspired by and we could probably all do a better job of it, you know, just in our day to day life.

As you know, it started off very much as a professional project and became deeply personal on so many levels. One was sharing my own story of having bipolar disorder and hiding it for most of my life. And then my dad, you know, at 82, has bipolar disorder as well. Genetic.

Yeah.

And was diagnosed at 50, hid it from everyone. And at 82 comes on, has a conversation with me and tells 20,000 people.

Yeah.

That he has this illness and what he's learned from it. My sister in law had a accident with my nephew when he was born in the hospital and had a tremendous amount of shame and ocd. She came on and told her story and I know they both would say how liberating and freeing and healing. And you know, it's so true. And it's certainly been true for me that my own story going into the podcast, sharing my story, I have like almost no attachment to it anymore.

Yes.

Like, it is so not a big deal to me. I don't know that I would even be interested if somebody said, can you, you know, write about it or come talk about it anymore. But I talk about it all the time. I talked last night to a mom whose daughter is in college and was diagnosed. So like at least five, six times a year I get a call. Yeah. Almost always from a mom of a college student.

Yes. Which is kind of tracks for your experience because so much. Yeah.

But my point. Yeah. But my point being that just talking about the hard things and being honest about it and putting it out there and then I think in my case, it's allowed me to not be stuck in it, to not be ashamed of it. But now, like, just to be a resource for people, like, it's really incredible. So thank you for saying that you think, you know, everybody who came on the show that it was helpful and healing to them, but it Certainly was to me.

Yeah.

As well. It was an exchange, that process, for sure.

Yeah. And the truth sets you free.

That's.

That's exactly. Whether it's a guest or your own. What did you find from the vulnerability just in your personal community of putting out this creative project, you know, your own story, as you just mentioned, being out in just your immediate world. Because I talked to a lot of people who are actually very worried about just their immediate world judging them. Not even, like, the public. But just what is my really good friend going to think about this? And what is this woman in the carpool line going to think? Tell us about how your listeners came forward and what you heard from people.

You know how moms always say. And I say this to my girls, too. Like, not everyone's thinking about you. You know what I mean? Like, we're always like, oh, my God, they're thinking. They said. Yeah, that was definitely how I felt. I'm like, people are going to be like, oh, she's too much, or da, da, da. Or, you know, I don't know what they were going to say. But I was for sure being really vulnerable and being really honest about my life and my inner world and my thoughts. And it felt very vulnerable. Like, I was like. I did feel like people are probably, I don't know, making fun of it or just even commentary. Oh, I don't like the podcast. Or she says too much. You know, I don't know. I just felt like I had opened myself to critique.

Yes.

Critique. Criticism.

Yeah.

Depending on the date. And I would actually never know what was being said or if anything was being said.

Yeah.

And probably at the beginning, going back to editing myself more and caring more. And then towards the end, I was just kind of like, it doesn't really matter if people in my social world here in LA have an opinion about it that's negative or critical. Because I knew that I had built a community and I knew that the stories were making a difference. And, you know, whether that was my dad or, you know, somebody who is in the throes of cancer and, you know, heard an interview that made them feel less alone. Like, yeah. That if the cost was me being nervous or insecure, that people may be talking about me because I was putting so much out there.

Yeah.

That I was okay with that. The good was worth it. And I just had to let go of that. But that. That wasn't easy at all at first. But I would say that by the end, I was like, effort, which is.

Where we all go eventually. Especially when you're taking in the good, you know, I think that's another thing to celebrate the small wins along the way. You know, sometimes when we start these new projects again, whether it's professional or personal, it's like it's gotta be so big, it has to be so significant, and then it has to lead to this other thing. Like, you and I talked about that in the beginning. Well, maybe the podcast is gonna be the beginning of a media platform or, you know, different versions of that. And who knows what you'll do in your life. You're young and you're full of great ideas, but I think also there's the value of being with the good at whatever stage you're in, letting it just be the size that it is and it unfolds and it stays close to what you really want to get from it, like the joy of it. And I think that's a funny thing.

Yeah, is. And, you know, we built an incredible community, and certainly the podcast was successful. And, you know, we had some really nice recognition. For sure, the project had meaning and impact. But working with you, it's so funny now to think about it, you know, I wanted to break through to have a podcast that a million people, you know, to have it be a breakthrough project.

Yes.

That, you know, a media thing that turned into a thing. And thank God.

I know.

I know it's where I am now. And my total clarity of what matters most, which at this point, with my kids getting older, is me being present and available to them and my past of being really ambitious and putting like that. The podcast was exactly the size it was meant to be. And, you know, because I think had it been like this uber successful thing, there would have been a lot of pressure to keep it going. And I feel like it was impactful, but also allowed me to end it five years and. Yeah. I'm just so much more readily available for the small moments in my life. And that is exactly, you know, how I want to think about my time.

Yeah. And isn't it interesting? You interview people about the biggest moments of their life.

Yes.

And you end up being attuned to the smallest ones in yours.

Yes.

And maybe they do, too. Maybe that was the arc. What did you find a lot of the arc of your guests? Was it a spiritual arc? Was it a perspective arc? Can you point to any kind of theme that would. The guests that really stuck with you and do you think about any of them? Sometimes I think about some of them will pop in my head. I don't know. Which one? The woman who was a hostage.

Yes.

And she had to go through the Alphabet or she had to use that discipline to like be exactly where she was.

And Jessica Buchanan, she was. Was. Yeah, she was kidnapped in Somalia. She was in a desert, I think, for like almost three months. Yeah.

I think about when I'm going through something, I don't have a high threshold for pain, like physical pain. And so to think about people who can really control their mind, you know, if I'm physically uncomfortable, I think about that one and I think about the shark attack, the father and the son.

Their conversation on the paddle boards. You talk about what matters most. And I think for anybody who goes through something that catastrophic or traumatic or unthinkable, everything comes into focus really quickly about what matters most. So there was a huge through line about family, about love, about how we show up for one another. You know, almost always there was, for lack of a better word, a character who was the hero in the story. Whether it was like a nurse who said one thing.

Yes.

My sister in law, you know, or a pastor, you know, in a prison, you know, there was always somebody. So I think that like the impact that you can have on someone's life and, you know, this idea of how much is out of our control, but what we can control, really. Right.

Yeah.

As we know the stories we tell ourselves, our mindset. So I think there was a lot of themes about, you know, family, about what matters most about mindset, about relationship.

I felt like a lot of people really figured out the quality of their relationship and became honest. And gratitude, I mean, that was another reason why huge, I think for you, you've always been a grateful person, and I feel like I've been a grateful person too. But to really embody gratitude is that journey from the head to the heart. And I think gratitude is one of those, those virtues that is a heart opener. You know, the more you practice it, the more available you get to feel it and you move through the world with a more open heart when you're committed to that perspective and like orientation of gratitude. And I just felt that so clearly in you. And that was part of your experience of all of this.

And you and I have talked about this a lot too. But the interesting thing is I have the exact life I had before the podcast.

Yeah.

Same three kids, same husband, you know, pretty much same living kind of circum the circumstances of my life. And I would say I am exponentially more grateful. And I'm sure five years ago I had a gratitude journal and Was trying to be a thankful, grateful person.

Yes.

I think it's about building a life as much as you can that is aligned with your values. Like I always remember our pastor, we used to go to a church here in Brentwood one day, did a sermon and he was asking people to reflect on, you know, what matters most, what do you care about most, what are your values? And everybody's sort of reflecting. And then he asked everyone to take out their phones and pull up their calendars and said, how are your values lining up? And not that, you know, obviously there's lots to get done in life, but I think as a result of all the wiser, I live a life that is more aligned with the things I value most and the people I value most. And so there's just more moments to really be there and present and available to like all of the goodness. And those moments, most of them small, like I said. And that's different than just writing down something you're grateful. I think it's really like feeling it or experiencing it because you're aware and you're available.

Yes. And living into the heart of it.

Yeah.

You know, not just the strategy in the head of it. And that's been my experience practicing gratitude as you know, you've done it with me every December I've done it, but I make this big push for gratitude. 31 days of gratitude in December because. Because it's such a busy, you know, consumer oriented month. If you're celebrating Christmas and gift giving or Hanukkah or whatever you're doing and family gatherings and time off with your kids and also the end of the year. So it's like all of this in one packed 31 days. And the reason I get so committed to gratitude is because it makes me appreciate all of it in a deeper way when I move to that heart centered like, oh, I'm really experiencing this with all my senses. I'm not just doing it from up here like I be doing it. And that certainly I think listening to all the wiser and being side by side and you know, walking alongside you as you launched it and then through the experience of it, it was so much about you being present and just feeling how people's stories can impact each other and impact a community of listeners. It's really. Sometimes I think it's all we have is each other's stories. That's all we have and that's all that really matters at the end. When you go back to BJ Miller and death awareness back to BJ Miller's work, which blew my mind years ago when I discovered not just his work, but I should do a shout out to all of end of life care. And it's become such a huge field. You and I have talked about that so much, and so many of your guests on all the Wiser face their mortality.

Yeah.

And so to remember that we are here, we are passing through, we're not here forever. And that's. That's actually what makes us wiser, is that the reality of the perspective of, gosh, I have this moment. I don't. The past doesn't really matter right now, and the future, I don't know the future. This is really all I have. And that was the biggest thing I felt like in you that I could feel just as settling.

It's, you know, these. I don't know, maybe you and I, because we love talking about these things and hearing other people talk about these things, but I almost wish there was, like, a sneaky way into, like, a new word we could brand for gratitude. Because it's been talked about so much that I sometimes feel like, even with my kids, I'm like, everyone. Like, oh, yeah, totally. Gratitude, Gratitude. Like, yeah. Like I've seen a, you know, whatever. Like, yeah, that was embroidered on someone's pillow or I saw it at my school sign. Like, it's everywhere. Right. But it is a magic pill, elixir type situation when you fully lean into it.

Yeah.

Because to go back to where we started with sort of that longing or that sort of emptiness, restlessness, to just, like, fully be in the moment and see how beautiful and true and right it is when those moments are available to you, I think it brings a lot of happiness and peace.

Yeah. And I. I think back to that part of setting something free. What I learned from all the Wiser is that it doesn't matter if the moment is the perfect moment. You know, these people were finding peace and gratitude and hope in moments that were so difficult, you know, so painful, so surprising. And I think that we, in our minds, it's like, it has to go this way. If it goes this way, then I'll feel this. And the gratitude is situated around. If I have this, then I'll feel grateful, or when I get this, I'll feel grateful. And that project and just all those people, all those stories that you have, which are still available, they're evergreen. And we will certainly, you know, take our listeners, whoever's listening to us now, and invite them to go there because it's so inspiring to hear how they found gratitude and hope and faith and love in a very unexpected moment. And that we can all do that. We can all take a very mundane moment and find it. And you can take an extraordinarily difficult moment and find it. It's like the person who calls or the neighbor who comes by or the interaction with the stranger, and you're like, wow, that's exactly what I needed today. And today's been a really difficult day.

Yeah. And I think we're also disconnected, right. With like, everything from, like, we do a lot less in person or a quick text here or, you know, you're waiting in line, but everyone's on your phone or you don't walk into the place because it can. They can drop it at your door. And I think all the wiser allowed me to deeply connect with a hundred people. And even saying it out loud, like, I can never take that for granted. Especially, you know, some of it was during the pandemic and I really went inward for a while during, as you know. Yeah. It kind of felt like five years of going to, like, I don't know, getting a degree in wisdom and having, like, live therapy and broadcasting it to everyone I know.

Yeah. And opening your heart.

And opening my heart. Now. One of my favorite things to look forward to in December is your gratitude newsletter or writings.

Yeah. Yes.

And I think. Was it last year we took a trip East India.

Yes.

I remember this.

And you were so.

And I was like, in Singapore and I mean, all over. It was incredible. I kept it. I was like, in Thailand reading about, like, cage in the backyard and the dog and the fence that opens up and like. And last year I gifted it to my mom, so I love that it's timed with that because it's really been meaningful to me.

I'm so glad. Thank you so much for sharing and sharing your story and being in my life and. And 31 days of gratitude is really infinite gratitude. You know, it's every day. So I appreciate that learning that with you and sharing that with you.

Well, I could not be more grateful for our professional relationship and everything you've helped me with, but certainly our friendship and our personal relationship as well.

Likewise.

Okay.

Thanks, Kimi. I've never carefully considered the connection between gratitude and wisdom, but talking with Kimi made me realize how inextricably linked those qualities are as it relates to Kimi and her all the wiser experience. I think that connection between gratitude and wisdom has to do with learning from challenges. When we acknowledge our lessons from the hard things in our lives. And we appreciate what we've learned. We're more resilient. We have a different perspective. Kimi shared many of her lessons and I could make a long list here, but I decided to give y'all my top four Number one When you're aligning your life with what matters most, it's essential to have a beginner's mind. Be open to trying something new, stick with it, and forgive yourself when you mess it up. Number two Listening to another person's story can change your life. Sharing the truth of your own story can set you free. Number three Once you know why you're doing what you're doing, you can better handle anyone else's judgment of it. Number four Gratitude requires the space to notice. You don't have to radically alter your life in big external ways to become happier. You can create changes when you make space to notice. Kimi, thank you for teaching me and thousands of others so much about wisdom and gratitude. Thank you for trusting me as a guide and sharing your point of view at every turn. It's been inspiring to see the world as you do. Through all of your big lessons, I've watched you learn. You're the person who has really shown me how beautiful life gets when we're readily available for the smallest moments. While our culture tells us we need some incredible, unimaginable experience to become wise, I'm discovering what we really need to do is pay attention to whatever experience we're having and share that story with others. You can visit allthewiserpodcast.com to learn more about Kimi's podcast and check out all the Wiser wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay y'all, that's it for today. I'll meet you again here soon. Thanks to each of you for being here and for listening. I'm so grateful we get to share life in this way. As always, full show notes are available@Paigenolan.com podcast there you will find a full summary of the episode, timestamps and key takeaways, and any resources mentioned in our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode Episode I'd love if you would leave me a rating and a review. You can do that by visiting Paigenolan.com love your reviews, really do help people to discover the show and if you know someone specifically who would enjoy this episode, I'm so grateful to have you all share. I'll meet you there with your friends. Lastly, if you have any questions or comments or if you would like to share any feedback with me, please email to meet me there@Paigenolan.com. i would love to hear from you. Thank you. To the team that makes this show possible. Podcast production and marketing by North Node Podcast Network Music by Boyd McDonnell Cover photography by Innis Casey okay, y'all, that's it for now. I'll meet you there again soon.